NOTE: This video was a response to various questions about Right to Repair I hastily did for a legacy media current affairs program who are doing a segment on right to repair. But I now won't be on it, so here is the footage if it's of use to anyone else.
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#ElectronicsCreators #RightToRepair #Repair
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#ElectronicsCreators #RightToRepair #Repair
There's actually several methods companies use to hinder repair on modern, Uh consumer products. Some of these are deliberate and others are a consequence of the natural progress of technology. The modern smartphone is actually a classic example of this, where there's been such technology progression in there. they're getting thinner, they're getting lighter, They're ultra compact with, uh, almost completely filled with batteries.
They've got screens which go right to the edge of them so you can't have like screws in them that you could in traditional consumer products and white goods and things like that. So they have to use glues and other adhesives instead of screws. and this presents a repair challenge. But it's really that's a natural consequence of the modern design of the product.
And that's really not a problem to repair people because they've developed tools and techniques to actually repair modern devices like these smartphones. As difficult as you think they are to repair, they're actually relatively easy to get a part and fix. Some are a bit more difficult than others, but the tools and techniques are available to actually do it, so that's not really a problem. The problems start to come in when the manufacturers make choices in the design of the product.
They don't really have any technological or marketing reason behind them other than to make it essentially more difficult to repair. One of these is using customized parts. And of course, in a modern phone like this, you cannot manufacture them without custom parts. So the problems really start when the manufacturers make deliberate design decisions to build in custom parts into the modern device like your mobile phone.
And of course, they're not possible without a lot of custom parts. But there's many instances where they could have used one of half a dozen different off the shelf components that you or I can just buy on the third-party market. There's lots of component sellers out there that will sell you these, uh, sort of like jelly bean components as we call them and that could be something like a battery charger chip for example. And if that chip fails, if it's a custom device, then you're not going to be able to get that part except from a a different scrap parts unit.
So what the device manufacturers do is they will approach the semiconductor manufacturers who make these chips and they'll go, hey, we want to build a million of these phones. Will you take this off the shelf chip, design us a slightly different variation on that, and sell it to us so that we can use it in our product. But by the way, that's now our own proprietary chip and you can't sell that to anyone else on the regular market like you can with all the other chips in your inventory. And that's where the problem comes in.
They use these custom chips when there's really no technology reason to actually do so, and a really insidious problem comes about with what's called component serialization. and this is where the manufacturers will take, say, the camera module in the phone and they'll build a serial number into that phone, which then the software can read out and that serial number is associated with the software in this particular phone when they manufacture it. So if you go and try and repair this phone, and you get a camera module, either you can buy it off the free market if you can, or you might be able to buy a third-party equivalent. And even if you try and take a genuine part out of another genuine product, you've got a scrap phone and you want to use it, uh, to salvage parts out of to do repairs. You take that genuine part out, you put it in another genuine phone and it won't work because the serial numbers don't match. It'll pop up an error message saying you know unauthorized repair or not compatible or some other error message. and this is something that they can do in software with almost any part. and it's pretty insidious.
And really, there's no technological reason why they should be doing component serialization like this. And the only conclusion that we can come to from this is that they want to prevent unauthorized repair, They want to charge you an armored leg to fix your product, or they want to sell you a new device. They don't want to give you the choice to go to your local repair person and be able to fix your product at a reasonable price. The right to repair is actually a given in other industries and people expect it and it take for example your if your fridge or your washing machine breaks down, it's a given that you can just call up your local repair person, they'll come out and they'll repair it and they'll have the parts available to actually do so or the automotive industry when your car breaks down.
it's a given that you'll go to your local repair shop and they'll be able to repair your vehicle and have the parts available to do so either part genuine parts from the manufacturer or if they're not available, at least be able to use parts from the Uh, secondhand or scrapped market. If your widget in your car fails, they often give you the choice. it's 500. for a genuine part from the manufacturer and four weeks lead time or something.
Or I can just go to the local Uh scrap yard, get a used one for a hundred bucks which one would you like and people make their choice. And having choice is a good thing. But when it comes to modern electronic devices like smartphones and laptops and xboxes, a lot of people don't have the same mentality that they can just go to a local repair shop and have it fixed relatively cheaply. They often go back to the The or the manufacturer, their authorized repair center like an Apple center and they might be given these outrageous quotes because these manufacturers when they repair something, they often won't do what's called component level repair I.e like trace down the fault to an individual component in there and just swap that. They'll often just swap the entire board in the thing and that is really costly and also in an environmental problem as well. You gotta produce an entire new board and scrap an entire new board just to fix something that could have been fixed with an individual component that you could have got done at your local repair center for often one-tenth the cost. The interesting thing is is that we come from a society where it was a given that you had the right to repair something, you owned it, you bought it, it was expensive and you would take it to your local repair shop to have it fixed and often Tvs back in the old days. For example, they would have a circuit diagram when you take off the back cover.
There's the circuit diagram in there that would help an independent repair technician to actually troubleshoot and repair that product at a reasonable cost and even computers back in the early days of Apple. For example, when you bought your Apple Ii computer, it actually came with the full uh, service information and all the listings. It was all open source and anyone could repair and tinker with their product. It was just a given, but somehow we've gotten to a point in society where a lot of manufacturers don't think that you actually own the product that you actually buy and you shouldn't be using an unauthorized repair center.
They will support it by often repairing it themselves, but at a much inflated cost and doing just board swaps and non-component level repair. And really, that's not good enough. So we need to tell the manufacturers that hey, I bought this, I own it. I should have the right to have this repaired by anyone I choose at a reasonable cost, or even repair it myself using the countless online video and other guides available these days to repair your own things.
And that's actually a big movement actually repairing stuff yourself, but you should be able to get them repaired at a reasonable cost which often the manufacturer themselves won't offer because they will just do a an entire board repair or something like that. They won't do component level repair and we should be telling the manufacturers hey, please don't do software component serialization and use custom component chips where you don't absolutely have to. Or at least don't go after independent repair centers for actually, uh, advertising and offering services to repair their products, which some of the main major manufacturers have done. They don't want people sharing repair information and it's ridiculous.
There are powerful lobby groups out there that will actually argue against your right to actually repair your own product, and they'll do this based on fairly dubious claims of safety. Privacy concerns is a big one. Traceability and other warranty requirements, where, in uh, reality, there's no actual evidence out there to show there's any difference between an unauthorized repair center and when the manufacturers authorized repair center. They just don't want you repairing your own products. and it's something that we shouldn't stand for. And the consumer should actually care about the right to repair your own product, because it's a given in other industries like white goods and automotive. So why shouldn't it be the case for your mobile phones and your laptops and other advanced electronic products? It should be absolutely no different. And the first thing is an environmental concern.
Just think of the number of mobile phones that you've tossed out. why shouldn't you, uh, be able to repair your phone at a reasonable cost? So if people go to and support their local repair centers, then they can often get their favorite Uh phone or laptop or Xbox or advanced electronic product actually repaired at and often significantly reduce cost to what the manufacturer will offer. even if they do offer that repair service at the manufacturer level. And even if the manufacturer offers a free replacement phone, for example, you should go.
Well, that's pretty wasteful. What happens to all the embodied energy that went into manufacturing this phone and it's just tossed out? It's just incredibly wasteful. And you when you multiply this by often hundreds of millions or a billion people, that's a lot of wasted uh, technology that's just thrown in the bin when it could have been very easily and very cheaply repaired. Governments can have a say in this, and they do in existing consumer law, which says that manufacturers must keep a reasonable amount of parts available for a reasonable amount of time for repair.
But unfortunately for modern, really advanced, electronic uh products, that's often not very, uh, practical. So it's often the consumers which have to put the pressure on the manufacturers and say, hey, please make these products more repairable. Or at least don't deliberately introduce features into the product that make it difficult for just anyone, including local repair centers to actually repair these products. The more difficult you make that the less we're going to buy your product.
So the consumers really have to put pressure on the manufacturers. So the key to this is to tell the manufacturer no, I'm not going to buy your product. I'm going to buy a competitor's product because they advertise that it's fairly easy to repair, and they actually, uh, support independent repair and hopefully some clever manufacturer will finally learn just like they did back in the old days. If they they include repair information on their website just freely downloaded, then they're going to be more popular.
It's not going to affect their sales, it could even increase them. So supporting right to repair is all about supporting choice about how when and where you can get your device repaired and if the manufacturers won't provide the information we'll go to buy the product from someone who does.
Where can i find more information about monitor repair process after 2021 law has paassed. How do they obtain schematics, spare parts, there isn't much specifics in Europa documents
Companies that do this need to be held responsible for the gargantuan levels of e-waste that then falls on the shoulders of government to deal with. It's shocking that it has gotten so bad, but here we are. Time to react.
first time viewing your channel, but wow. You nailed the right to repair argument. We bought the thing, we should be able to keep it as long as we want! This goes hand in hand with planned obsolescence for devices. It's on us to pressure manufacturers for repairable, longer lasting products. Well said.
Trouble is, you have no choise. You go to another manufacturer, because of that right to repair thing, and there is the same BS. More and more companies are adopting the idea of irrepairability and that becomes a world trend. It is the manufacturers' choise, not ours. However we, the consumers, have the power to make manufacturers choose the other way. I am hoping!
BUT!
Where there is someting important like medical equipment or life support systems etc. the right to repair is not applicable. Only authorised and certified technicians should repair these and nobody else. I guess, you know why.
I use windows xp softwares but found that I could no longer have full function of it because the hard disk is replaced and reformatted. There is no way to activate it online now. I paid for it but seems like never own it. Never mind it is 20 years old but it suits me perfectly. That is the way those tech companies rip consumers off.
If a manufacturer says that your device belongs to them and not you then we need a law that they have to buy it back from you at EOL at the full price you paid for it. That would never happen of course but there could be a substantial buy back to discourage obsolescence and premature scrapping.
If I was in power, "repairability" would be mandatory. For economical as for enviromental reasons.
Manufacturers would be required to supply service information at no charge. Also they would be required to give ALL the design documentation to a state-run archive, which will keep them safe for a set duration (I respect trade secrets to a degree), but makes them public as soon this time is over (and it will be fairly short, in the order of a few years) or the company goes under. Also they would have to supply sufficiently fine divided spare parts in an easy way (like an online shop where everyone can order).
Up to the early 1980s serviceablity was basically common sense. Every piece of consumer electronics was supplied with at least a schematic and at least authorized dealers could get any spare parts.
I love old Tektronix equipment, which had those glorious sections "Theory of Operation" where they EXPLAINED how the circuits work. For the tube scopes you needed a special kind of solder. That was because they were built on ceramic terminal strips which were silver plated. Normal solder would dissolve the silver from the ceramic and basically destroy the terminal strips. The only way to prevent this was to use a solder alloy which was already saturated with silver. Their solution back then: They mounted a small spool of that solder into EVERY SINGLE DEVICE, so you can use it for repair work.
My "R&S SMS" rf signal generator has the riser card which you need to measure on single boards mounted into the case .. and so on. The service manual is superb and I already fixed that thing a few times.
$30 Printers requiring $80 replacement cartridges annoys me . Cheaper buying a new printer , I went walkabout in Officeworks really pissed off at the thought of setting up another printer . I found refill printer ink kits and made a mess , kept me printing like newspaper for years . Cheers
I ordered a phone from Tracfone. When it didn't arrive after a week, I called them, they said they will issue a refund and you can just order another phone. Just a day later the first phone arrived so I called them to activate it. After multiple attempts with several reps they finally told me that phone has been marked as stolen and we can't reverse that. You can't use that phone, in fact no one can use it, ever, and nothing anyone can do about it. I still use it as a camera but what a waste!
Consumers putting pressure on manufacturers making their products repairable is difficult because:
– The last thing on a consumer's mind when they purchase a product is "is this repairable". Repairability is not advertised at all, is not something covered in reviews, and even if it was, consumers care about now, not the future
– Electronics have become rather difficult to repair. Many times if a consumer tries themselves to repair something they own, they just make the whole thing worse.
– Consumers repairing is counter to sales. If more consumers repair electronics, the company sales will go down because there's less incentive to buy new products.
– Making something more repairable will affect other things that consumers actually do care about, even if they don't admit it, like aesthetics and performance.
I've been doing workarounds lately, by buying things in modular and assembling the whole thing by myself. For example, power bank, I got the board, case and batteries separately. More work but it's better for long term. I really hope that I can do that for many more products, starting with the big ones like a fan where the bearing, driver and motor can be swapped or even upgraded. Come on, industry!
I'm not sure that "independent repair centres" are that much cheaper for phones. The point of the board swap approach is that it is fast, requires very little skill/training, and is successful 100% of the time. They then take all the broken boards and process them centrally (presumably recovering reusable parts automatically to make new boards for swapping). They certainly don't bin valuable components.
That's not to say that the "right to repair" isn't a good thing, of course… Just that it probably isn't going to apply to consumer electronics in practice – it's more targeted at industrial equipment and white goods. These actually have an economically viable repair ecosystem…
This is a great informational video response. In general it is a good video to share with people who have questions about Right to Repair.
However, your final answer is terrible. This isn't a problem that will be fixed by more people "voting with their wallets". This is something that absolutely needs to be required by laws.
Serialisation of components in something like an Apple phone does have an interesting rationale. The first issue we saw was with the fingerprint reader inside the push button. A replacement button would work to drive the UI, but the internal fingerprint reader would not. The owner could still use the phone, but only with a PIN. The reason being that only an Apple repair centre has access to the appropriate authorisation certificate to create a binding of the replacement reader to the phone. This is an interestingly serious question. If the certificate leaks out into the general repair community it becomes viable to produce hardware hacks that circumvent the fingerprint reader, and thus break the security of the phone (by say a replay attack). It wasn't that long ago that Apple refused the FBI's request to produce a customised OS build that would allow the FBI to crack a phone. A modern iPhone has a very secure hardware/software design. Encrypted communication between the peripherals forms part of this security.
As cynical as we might be about Apple's motives in creating this system, I suspect they see far more value in the sales that comes with a phone that is as near uncrackable and resistant to clandestine hardware modifications as reasonably technologically possible, versus the lost income from third party repairs. The reputational damage from being hard to repair is not small, but the damage from having a phone which has its much vaunted security model broken by installation of a third party part would be vastly worse.
The problem with car parts is similar. However there is an active set of hacks that allows at least some use of second hand car components, although it often requires a small microprocessor on the appropriate CAN bus to modify communications.
Planned obsolescence. Check the washer machine transmission shaft's, they used to be steel made, and lasted 30 years, now are made of "metal pot" an alloy the will get soft and brake with water contact after few years.
The notion of having rights is interesting. Here in the UK, we don't have any rights – we have laws and everything in society is tested or challenged in the law courts to set a precedent. In the US they have a constitution which declares the rights of citizens. As frustrating as it is, I really don't see why a manufacturer should be forced to accommodate the repair industry; surely it's up to other manufacturers to use repairability as a USP and let competition do its natural thing. Having been in the electronics repair business for 50 years, I've found that usually the economics dictate the viability of a repair rather than manufacturers making life difficult. Even going back 30 years consumer products have often used custom ICs that aren't available as a spare part and only as part of a sub-assembly, often making the repair cost prohibitive. The auto industry is the number one culprit in coding modules to a central ICU so that used parts can't be used as only new modules can be 'flashed to match'. It's not uncommon to find cars written off for the sake of an automatic handbrake module costing £1500 to replace or even a wiper motor. Windscreen wipers used to consist of a single motor operating two wipers via simple mechanical arms; reliable and inexpensive to replace. Increasingly they are now a pair of direct drive modules each with a built-in microcontroller coded so eac one knows where the other is and therefore can be synchronised without any mechanical coupling. A new module can cost hundreds or even over a thousand pounds to replace.
you mentioned cars, and I would argue about the aftermaket parts, especially related to electronics. All the sensors in the car are paired and are using encrypted channels to communicate. I would understand this approach in systems such as tachographs, where it is important to check the drive time and the speed, but in simple cars it makes no sense, since only dealers have access to that information. I'm not even want to talk about the fact that all new cars have e-sims preinstalled on them and are always connected to the internet, this begs the question if you own the car or the dealer, since it can make your car obsolete remotely at any given time.
Ever think it curtail thefts? A lot of parts phones in independent repair places are bought cheap because they’re stolen and chopped. Makes stealing a $1000 left in a car useless
Dave, I just completely lost faith in you, though maybe I shouldn't have had it in the first place, considering I don't want false faith placed on me either.
Right to repair is NOT about whether you can take your widget somewhere, rather it is about the data and parts being available so YOU (or I, or anyone given sufficient motivation) can DIY.
You are at least one level abstracted and behind the curve for what this all means. NO it does not just mean can I take some widget to some 3rd party and get a part, it means do I have the info available that I don't have to do that!
I don't want parts from the 2nd hand market, I want to repair the specific subsystem at the component level that failed to have the data available to do it without a high burden of reverse engineering.
Right to repair is not as much about parts as it is about the initial design lending itself to repair and making the data available to DIY. Granted, you seemed to focus on phones, while those or other highly dense designs, are the worst for DIY because of the complexity and density of the design, but looking forwards, one step at a time, first we need to get this done for the low hanging fruit, the electronics that aren't so small and dense that you need a microscope and surgeon skills to fix that widget.
Ignoring phones as the exception, modern appliances or vehicles are something everyone can relate to.
I'm watching you when you created this channel, but unfortunately my old email ID has been lost. Now, I made new gmail ID and watching you again. Amazingly me and you join YouTube same day, secondly , me and you are same age. 😇.
Waiting for 1 million. Keep it up. 👍
i am not sure what this all about? the little c-phone is some what like the big green john deer tractors… hackers beware! if there is a will, there might be a way? thanks, great info…:)
I'm can see both sides of the right to repair debate. The manufacturer could examine the total cost of ownership over the life of a product, and reduce the initial purchase price based on what segments of the lifetime cost the manufacturer expects to make revenue on. Inkjet printers are the classic example. You can buy complex inkjet printers for a price that does not cover design and manufacturing costs. Over the years of ownership you then have to purchase ink cartridges priced at much higher than the manufacturing cost, to allow the manufacturer to recover original product design and manufacturing costs. Ink jet companies (like Epson) also do sell models with a higher initial cost, but very low ink costs. I don't think this tradeoff in initial purchase price is an invalid thing to do, although do think it should be made very clear upfront if you are buying a device with low initial cost but higher operating costs or a device with higher initial cost and lowest possible operating costs. Let's take the example of a $100K tractor, which the manufacturer expects to make an additional $50K over the lifetime on proprietary service. Would the farmer prefer to pay $150K initial cost, and be assured independent service organizations could get the tools and parts? I think it's a difficult marketing sell for brand B of tractor to cost $150K and brand A cost $100K. Both tractors may need $50K of servicing over their lifetime, but the $100K tractor has these costs going toward the manufacturer. For the manufacturer, the cost to replace a circuit board may be much lower than diagnosing down to the component level, so has little incentive to supply component level repair data/tools/parts. This is no different that rebuilding a car engine piece by piece instead of buying a new/rebuilt engine in a crate. If labor costs is high, buying the large assembly done efficiently in a factory is likely a lot more economical. There is also smaller pool of people who can diagnose/repair to the component level vs module level. Like it would not be impossible to repair an incandescent light bulb by opening the glass casing, replacing the filament, removing the air and sealing the glass casing back up. Everybody just throws away the bulb, as it's just too labor intensive to repair the individual parts. The filament cost is almost nothing compared to the labor needed to replace it. So the right to repair debate partially seems like a debate about component vs module repair costs, which are really about labor availability and costs.
The end goal is approaching that people are not able to reverse engineer ANY product from high tech, and what really happens inside the chips is uncontrollable, and when you see the density of the chips they can hold every device without us knowing.
I predict that THAT will be the largest crisis of trust humanity will ever get into.
The Dishwasher/washing machine market is a bit different today too. Our Miele dishwasher had its main pump fail, the cost for the labor and the pump was like 1200€. We bought a new machine since the warranty just recently had decayed. When I dissected the dishwasher I noticed that the pump was very deeply buried in the machine, instead of semi-easily accessible from an access panel or something. Then our washing machine which was under warranty. Guess what? -"Main board is shot" (Is this the washing machine equivalent to the head phone jack being broken?) Outside of warranty it would have amounted to around 450€ Reparability, sure to some extent, but it could be better, much much better. Sorry for the long post. 🙁
I totally agree. Manufacturers should provide block diagram/schematics and also avoid using custom chips as a result the support to the local repairs shops as well as the local economy.
Thank You Dave from Long Island NY. We are proud here of our Great NYer Louis Rossman who has been leading a charge on this. Nikon had cut availability of parts to 3rd party camera repair shops several years ago. It's a cancer. And I am indeed sorry to use that word. Maybe Wall Street is a better term. You are the Best.
Why repair when you can sell a new device?
Our economy relates in converting as much raw materials as possible in shortest time into trash!
Everybody's talking about CO2 emissions so let's use our stuff as long as possible!
Thank you for this video!
Because people never read the video description:
NOTE: This video was a response to various questions about Right to Repair I hastily did for a legacy media current affairs program who are doing a segment on right to repair. But I now won't be on it, so here is the footage if it's of use to anyone else.
NOTE2: Yes this video si the same as on my EEVblog2 channel, but a lot of people said it belonged on my main channel, so here is it with some of the questions inserted.