Dave talks with Karsten Becker from PT Scientists about the electronics on board the Audi Quattro Lunar Rover, and space electronics in general.
Radiation, thermal design, camera systems, power supplies and more.
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Radiation, thermal design, camera systems, power supplies and more.
Forum: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-896-space-electronics/'>http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-896-space-electronics/
EEVblog Main Web Site: http://www.eevblog.com
The 2nd EEVblog Channel: http://www.youtube.com/EEVblog2
Support the EEVblog through Patreon!
http://www.patreon.com/eevblog
EEVblog Amazon Store (Dave gets a cut):
http://astore.amazon.com/eevblogstore-20
T-Shirts: http://teespring.com/stores/eevblog
💗 Likecoin – Coins for Likes: https://likecoin.pro/ @eevblog/dil9/hcq3
Hi I'm here with Carsten yet again and we've got the out our D Quattro Lunar Rover and we're going to talk electronics. Yeah, Excellent. This you are the senior electronics. You're the head of electronics devotedly for the whole project.
Yeah, so I've been doing the electronics for the rubber for quite a while now, got it? But you've also been involved in lots of the mechanical stuff as well. We're pretty general assembly us electronics guys. So yeah, alright. what's the processor? What? What process is driving this thing? Yeah.
So the interesting thing is in the beginning we had like a central FPGA like a was a vertex V is a PowerPC And then we ran into some problems because if you have a central processor and you have then we had also central motor drivers which meant that we were driving high currents over long distances And right this led to some problems. and so with the new what we actually is decided to to go away from this concept and we developed a more like distributed system. So this is what you can see here. Is this in this unit? There's a there's a motor and there's the electronics actually sitting on top of it.
Yep, which can take a look at. We'll get a show later. Yep, we can commit. That's probably the only thing we can tear down at the moment.
Sorry, but yeah. Ok so you got the drive electronics in here. Yeah, yeah. and you're saying each wheel is can operate autonomously Exactly.
So there's there's a processor in each of those. Yeah, it's a net Male: 1 It's an ATM ego. Something where you Annabelle fanboys, you scared about the new microchip by out microchip buying them? No, they still got a pen. So there's um, there's a radiation section going on at Muscle at Nerve which is pretty strong right? and so yeah, we can take one of those.
Okay, cool. So they will be able to supply your parts, their radiation hardened parts and everything. Can they? Can you order any of their parts to order as radiation hardened? No, No, No. Saudi right.
So the thing is that well the radiations are very interesting. We'll talk about that in a separate video. So I guess you know it's not like stuff doesn't work magically and it's not like you don't need to have a certificate to be able to run it. but there is some gradually differences between them.
Got it and right? So we've got a processor in each wheel and there's one main processor in the thing is that it which ones that so that there's a smart using two which is it's an FPGA with yep And there's also the the on-board computer unit which is a way to Linda sorry. So in the lane that we have we have another computer which is which is taking all the control of the spacecraft which is more radiation environment in times at the mission. Once Lander lands on the moon it's done, its jobs done and the rate just dies. and the Lunar and the Rover takes over.
Yep, right? So the So the the lander. It has its own power source. Yeah, it's not solar powered. It's no. oh yeah, right. that's good in space. It's it to you this way together. I was asking about those radio right.
there was a paper. Thermoelectric generators. Thermoelectric Power Generators is the correct term I'm going to get there eventually and right. So too much paperwork its own.
So I was it was funny I Was at a conference and a positive Ozzie Guy that is responsible for the new radios atop generators. Yes I asked him how much paperwork it would be for us to launch it and he said like oh this is a very good question. You should have me write me an email but I'm afraid. I don't want to go on the plateless anywhere self but he said that it would be an order of 20 to 30 millions on paperwork to get it launched on rocket.
What? Really? Yep, that's the 20 or 30 million just to ensure that some said doesn't fall on some city and get and the city. Yes, yeah exactly polluted. Wow Okay so you're going. What battery solution here Young with? So actually we we are just testing some some regular Lithium-ion batteries.
I Would have thought you'd go for a more hearty battery. they're mine. I Thought the temperature swings would be too much for thee. Yes, so if you would put it on the on the surface of the Moon then the temperature would be too high, right? But if you look at the rover, it's designed in a very peculiar way.
I Mean it's sitting up because we want to have the ground clearance obviously of course. But we also if you look at the soil, it has about a temperature of about 100 degree Celsius when we are landing. Yep, and that's because the sun's hitting it. Yeah, on the darker where there's no Sun it goes down 2-1 on easy.
Crew says us. which is why our mission only lasts one Luna day. Difficult. And how long's the Luna day? It's about 40.
News: It's about 40. Yeah, it's a hot on ice. You're right. Yes, of course and right.
But what if you land in? there's no hills nearby that can shade. What if you accidentally landed in next to where you know which way to avoid birth, right? Okay, but that could be a potential screw-up if you land in the wrong spot and shady. And whoops, there was any screw-ups Okay, so there is no backup. You have to have the Sun to pair it when you land.
Yeah right? That's how I mean the bit of it. So we have battery power. They can drive it for about two hours. Yep, which is sufficient to drive for five millimeters, right? You know you know we.
and we don't think it was a five millimeter. This is if you only would try five millimeters, we would be very disappointed, right? Even though this would be a huge success, you know we would be very sad about and one of our sponsors probably as well. 500 meters and breaks down? Yeah, you don't worry, Got it? So why those particular? Back to the the processors electronics. Why those processors? Because you're the head electronics guy and that's what you like, your and your where is it? What are the requirements that drive that? Yeah, so the thing is that sometimes it's really just what you like, you know, Anime and the main processor that we had in the previous generation that was actually Qyx running us because I like you and eggs right? Why I don't like VxWorks as I've found out? Yeah, it's like, you know and as a for example, has a good reputation in the space industry. Okay, and because it's making space space hard processes as well, right? And for this much fusion - it's It's because it's a it's a flash-based Fpga so you don't have the problems with bit flippin' stuff. at least not in the configuration area, sure, and so there. And also there's radiation reports for every part they bring out and so you can read out all the data. You can see how it does in the radiation environment and this is so critical for what we're doing.
Oh Excellent. Okay, but there were endless choices though. Yeah, you could have chose. Yes.
I Mean here's the thing it says - what you so you can. You can choose from any components you want, but you have to do. You have to judge what the risk of using that particular component is. Mostly, this is constrained by the radiation environment, so you don't want to use something where you have zero data about the radiation or you need to run a test campaign about it.
So for example, the MSP for so you this does a theorem for example, which is inherently radiation heart in some way. So that's interesting. Yeah, right. But the particular tests of the devices didn't show up so well.
So it's and then you know you're like, oh, this is a nice technology and should be nice and then you actually it's not that good and there's a lot of experience in there. Let's talk about the energy of this thing. How much power does it use? Yep, so how much battery storage does it have? How fast does it charge? Do you? Can you live with Lunar dust on the on the cells? Will that be a problem when you land? If it kicks up enough dust and it does it will. These cells get covered and you're screwed.
Well, what's going on? Yes, there are a lot of questions. so it's at the beginning. so the solar pets are so low. Solar cells that you can see here are can produce about 93 watts my knee straight.
What's and in the space environment? Yep, because you don't have the atmosphere. so you know about searching hangouts. 57 watts per square meter which on if people don't know on land here in best sort of like best-case condition. Normally a thousand watts per square meter so you get 1300? Yes.
And so this power then is used to charge the battery and ansible and the battery is about 250. What? I was okay. and it's mostly used for for the 40 motors because you have those spikes and now you've got to have a low ESR to drive. Yeah, exactly. Essentially, that's its architecture. You know we're trying to charge the battery constantly and user the energy for the driving. God, how much powered is the electronics take? Well, So um mmm, it's about 30 watts when we're not doing anything so you can you could charge was about 60 watts. Okay, if we are not doing anything, the peak energy consumption actually forfeit writhing like Apple at the worst conditions.
Actually, not to give any more than the 90 watts actually. Okay, interesting. could you do this without having the tiltable solar panels? Um, yeah. So the question is really, just how much? How much pauses do you need to take? Okay to let it charge back up and then drive again and then.
but you could continuously charge. You can continuously drive. So we are 80. Yeah, we're aiming at at ability to continuously drive.
Yep, this is what we really want to do with EF Continuous stream of video 24/7 for the 11 half days. And as somebody goes, yeah, are as I'm control in there cuz it's almost real-time We're talking about second and a half. so three seconds total delay. So you mention how you're gonna do that.
Can you explain how you're gonna do that? You're gonna have a three second buffer in there. What's yeah? So this is probably about as much as yeah And then right. That's so it's basic. For example, dealing with the three-second delay is that you just a stereoscopic images to build a 3d scenery and then you project a virtual Rover into that and hope that the actual robot is following your projection.
One way of dealing with it because the problem is, you're not seeing the Rover from the outside as you're seeing it when you're driving. You know? But you only have the vision of your camera head and you know it can turn. But it will do with this three-second delay. And so this is.
This is quite some challenge here. So you see your actual camera, but you see when you're starting you see virtual robot driving. Oh, you'll see a virtual Rover drive in 3 seconds ahead. Yeah, but like a driving assistance that you have.
In the end, you know people are asking us boys, where's the robot So so and this three-second delay is actually the answer Because you know we could try 550 kilometres per hour, but he's gonna slam into Apollo 17? Yeah he is. So you think you've got the energy problem licked? Yeah, so this was there is. The funny thing is that the energy was actually the one driving thing that got us from growing. So I was gonna say cuz she started out shoebox-sized Yes, right? Just wait.
You did the numbers on the back of an envelope. Kind of. Yeah, Yeah, so it's it's not completely impossible, right? if you so depends on the architecture that they have. For example, if you say okay the Len there is a relay.
so then you then you can use like a Bluetooth connection which is very other power. Yep, But the problem is that when you have a Bluetooth connection you cannot go very far exactly. And so we wanted to have something that's really useful and not just to win the money, but useful and doing exploration. And so we want to have something that can communicate to ours directly. And this is why we need to have more energy. How far into the process did you decide that that was the only way forward that you had to have a rover that could transmit directly back? Um, that was actually pretty early on. the second generation. Yeah, it's already pointed at this.
Okay, right. But the first generation were. Why are the first generation I was very optimistic just to do this way, but I was in charge of the electronic sensor. Maybe that's right.
It was a couple of Hobby Motors with a little frame. Make sure you those what's already is Quite some nice moves. Yeah, but it never drove unfortunately. right? Got it? The second generation was the first one was thriving right? So they say which generation is this of those of the foster fourth generation? How? How different from the third generation one? Not much actually.
So ok. The third generation was almost the same size. the wheels were 20% smaller. Yep.
but overall really no big change, just that we you know there's a reason we call the former generation of the tank right? so it was a little sturdier. you know, a little more functional looking. even lights up blue on the front couple of blue LEDs Never guys Australia right? Yeah. taking the control I Think I think we need some red on the front Ordiance is getting a bit bored the worldwide audience.
So let's just that said, engineers. Yeah, we were lost viewing not send that to the moon by the way, right? So is that one big board in here that does everything? Yeah, So this is one of the things that that we we thought about a lot, especially in the beginning. So the beginning we we anticipated to have a concept where we had one backplane and very plug-in modules and that's a Ginny is always go to the modular they think oh yeah that'll be a good solution. Yeah the thing is it is a medium good solution right? Yeah you can you can you can.
you can test which components on your own. Nice addition to its and and also the production bias. it's not. It's not horrible, you know if you can exactly.
but having your bc be of this size with connectors on it. yeah it's like we were like you got vibration, you got contact. Yeah and so no no we decided that we have. We have those.
we have cards yeah which plug in there which are keeps at size which helps us to. That's right you were you were saying you've designed this around CubeSat Yep CubeSat size Technology these are tell us why. So the thing is that in the in his basement reads the CubeSat Communities is growing ever bigger and if you want to do something on the cheap keeps all the communities probably providing you something. For example, radius there and you create number of radios that you can actually use which are CubeSat size so you will use like an off-the-shelf radio. Yes, Oh okay right yeah great. So you don't have to roll that. I Know your own solution? Yeah you know there's you know developing radio is not not an easy task. Yeah that's close.
Buying off the shelf is probably good idea right? What others modules can you get? Yes, yeah we do. We do all on electronics. Everything is really custom made for everything. Yeah yeah.
So this is something that that we started to develop very early on. We you know we started with it. In 2010 we started to build up our own PCBs and ever since we we just was in the scheme of building a row very well. It's not.
it's one. Hollis Is it rocket science? What one? But you know in isolation on your lip works pretty well, right? But eventually you know you have to. you have to think about EMC for example. which gets funky.
Why do you have to think about AMC Well month because of regulations? Alright and this is what I'm gonna say because I come from the marine electronics background where you didn't care about that, it's in the middle of the ocean. you don't care about how much you radiate or beYOU know the problem. So why is it yeah. But for example in the beginning yeah we had we do a central motor driver unit and those are very high and they they get into everything you do and this can lead to some issues and so this is something that we learned we have to take.
That's why they're out here. Yeah, that's one of the reasons yeah. Is it just gets rid of your problems? Yeah, yes. And the others inside a metal cage in there.
And exactly so the other thing is that so the reason for having a the modular like this. It's also because you need to have some similar parts for it to get rid of the heat. because you're on deck. You gotta? You can't just plug in A -.
Because yeah, now you were saying before the thermal side of things, we've got a hundred and twenty watts. Sorry. 120 degrees C Infrared radiation from the bottom from the bottom. 120 degrees C Effectively cooking the bottom of this.
Yep, so window panel tilt. So this way the electronics can call the example East Siders seconds later because there is no breeze. it's like there's nothing. How do you get how are you coupling the internal heat out to the body? for example, because that's it.
Otherwise, it'll just cook inside. won't it? Exactly, You won't be able to. Oh no, no, it can thermally radiate from inside, to the walls and then to the outside. Exactly, not as nicely.
If is that what you're relying on. Oh yes, actually no not. we're not just relying on it by accident right now. Actually, some of the engineering at such a way that the summer conductivity is is conducted to this side. Yep, and not to this side. Which is the bottom part are the portal because there's some so there's some some some insulation built for it happening on the bottom part got it and some infrared radiation away to the black space on this side. So there's a very specific reason why it's shaped like that in there. Things like this side, it gets hot.
This side you used to cool exactly because this is facing the other one. Brilliant. Yeah, when did you figure that out into the design process? Oh yeah. actually our second generation already had kind of the tunnel my colors, but it wasn't.
you know, really? simile designed in such a way. But in the second generation we actually used, we're like let's place all the electronics below the solar panel which is not interesting. So I got a 90 watt panel on this puppy. Yeah, we've got lithium ion storage.
I'm still surprised at the lithium ion can't handle the temperature extremes because you've got no, this is not a thermally regulated environment inside. there isn't Is there insulation. Is there thermal insulation? So the thing is that that this part. So yeah.
ft. You have the angle part this part and you have this part here and this is where the batteries are sitting. Which is the coldest part. Actually, it will not.
It will not get anywhere near 70 degrees right? Because the lithium-ion batteries exothermic. They heat up yeah so you don't So cooler is yeah. But the thing is said, for example, We: this is why we are running test campaigns with those. but there is for example of you, the runaway car is happening.
If you pick them closely to each other, then the the heat goes to the other cells and then you get a runaway with all the cells that if you if you put them in through like a metal casing for example and attach it to a thermal control surface then you can control how much the the runaway you can. You can kind of contain it too so to speak and prevent that. Interesting thermals are a big thing. Spice Electronics is a lot of thermals.
Yeah so one of the things for example about the model inner is it's flying in what's called the barbecue mode which is oh it rotates until such time as it gets close to the surface, then it lands. Yeah! I find it funny I said you know you need one here in one side and because it changes them, you're because it gets very cold and you know you. You have to rush right through even a nose. If people don't know, that's why the you know when they went to the moon, you seen movies, they wrote it.
The capsule rotates has got a slow rotation although your thumbs double ization everything. Oh it's in spin stabilisation but yeah it's so it doesn't bake. Yep, yeah. awesome.
So I reckon you got all thermal problems licked. No problems with thermal expansion of metals and stuff. The panels are space rated right? Yeah, but there's some of the thing is that why we are I Was only talking about eleven half days of a mission list because when the temperature goes from the plus on a twenty decrease says it goes down to minus 100 degree. Celsius No I Perfect. Yeah Well Lou that night. Yeah. and so the thing is that while the mechanics of off dealing with that well not easy but known you know electronics part is very tough to do. You know you have all the components and we're using off-the-shelf components and then the bonding goes.
No traces, break and stuff like this so we are not expecting to be alive for the next Lunar day. but it does. Anyone calculated there's a 2% chance at my I don't know. Cross your fingers and you know know you can always pray right? Yeah, that's gonna work.
They calculate yes, do statistics yeah but the thing is you know you can if you go to your manufacturer like you know how the houses component rated for minus 180 degree says you're like it's very good to get it to to get a vacuum chamber down to minus 100 degrees right? You know just throw it into into a liquid nitrogen for example. Which isn't how you a different test. Have you been able to simulate the environmental conditions? Have you? Yeah, we can. It's It's easy to go down to minus 60 for example.
yeah of course. Yep. you can regular thermal ovens, you know, industrial ones. Yeah so this is some of the test we do.
You recycle the electronics up to 100 degrees minus 60 degrees, but below that you can't so you can't really see you at the minus 180 that it would get in during the night night would be very hot. You're right. Got it. It's gonna die on the surface.
I'm change the only way. Well, maybe not. But the only way to get around that would be to have a thermoelectric Jen In their continued because it's nuclear last 50 years or whatever and continuously generate heat, you could keep everything warm. And yeah, the thing I said people ask us, why don't you just us a big battery to heat it up The problem is that our design is specifically designed to get rid of as much heat as possible, which is exactly the opposite of what you want to do if you were to survive tonight, right? Yeah, it's It's very difficult to win.
It's not. It's not impossible, right? Very difficult and it would screw up your mission requirements and everything else if you will. If you took that seriously as a requirement that yeah, we want, we really want a good chance of surviving that. Yeah, you know that cold period, which which lasts for 15 days? Yeah, right.
So the thing is, you know, if you, this is why, for example, the The Space Agency music missions get significantly more expensive than our nations Because we say, well, we have 40 days of fun and we are dead. But if you say you want to have longer mission durations and you need to account for that and do more engineering and more mass and more mass means bigger rocket. and this is by the mission to the moon from space eg, costs 600 instead of I. Presumably you have to land on the start of the Sun design, later a little bit later. Otherwise, it's not enough. Well, it's another thing is that the reason why you want to land on the beginning of the Lunar day is because yeah, you need some shadows to see where the craters are. Okay, so you so you've got an imaging camera imaging system in the lander? That? Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Exactly Because you need contrast, right? You need that light.
There's no contrast to unity. Yeah, yep, and so. but in the beginning of the day you the shadows are extremely long and it's very difficult and but also the temperatures too low. So you need to land in about the second or third day of the afternoon a day cycle.
Interesting, right? Ok, so you've only got 12. That's why you've only got 10 days or something you have budged on. I'm calling you out, but you'll see this in the unboxing video. I Noticed this straight away.
It's a two dollar eBay headlamp Hot milk hot snotted on to the front of your million dollar Lunar rover. Yeah, the our designers were going to probably kill me, but no, no yes I wouldn't show by this to show the public jury no show my three hundred and fifty thousand. But why why do you need a light on the front? Yeah, so this is. We were doing some some testing where we wanted to see if the light is helping with the driving and partially shaded areas.
So you've said, have you see me? have you got like a simulated Luna Yeah so this is arm on the end Bonin Be actually currently building a 10 by 20 meters test bed where we can and and you got lights to do lights it up. You can simulate different conditions and as the day as that that would be nice. but you can have some envelope calculation on what the kind of lamp you need to do a proper Lunar illumination with 100 1357 watts per square meter. So that's about too much.
No. So we have Vff. we have a flat lights are coming from the bot from the top with LEDs and it's about studio Light. Ok, it's it's.
a shame to write honestly, but everything else would be like driving the costume. Infinity and beyond. Is the electronics a big deal in this? How many lines of code? How many like isn't What's the hardest part of doing this I Mean presumably the electronics is like yeah, we can just do that given that the electronics is gonna so easy as well. I would say the the hardest part about electronics is the integration of the multiple components.
So alright right? Yeah so you have on your lap bench you have one motor driver with one motor off and on your lap. power supply right? Yeah and you drive it and it works perfectly and then you have eight of those and you you start to turn left and go full speed at the same time with all eight motors and then stuff gets very interesting. You know it really checks your power design and this is very I would say the hardest part is really, um the power supply's design Actually okay interesting how you're not using any one Hundo brand caps in there. How do you design a space power supply? Yeah so the interesting part is that you. So for example if you you cannot just use any capacitor you find you know it. Capacitors dynamic slang Freeze. They can freeze. Yeah but the the hardest part is actually they become if you're driving on vacuum then you know there escapes boys often.
Oh okay yeah, but this sealed they hermetically sealed. Two points. Yeah. I Guess they're a pressure vessel as well.
They're a yeah yeah, not not. but not well enough to be just using it right? So there are some who magically sealed capacitors actually some of them which are using yeah but you buy so. one capacitor is about 50 to 200 euros and you don't? You don't want to have too many of those right? So you're probably going with with a tunnel or a chemical visages, right? So for example, one of the few on our PCB that you see we actually mostly have kept chemical passages because of that. Okay, because those are pretty safe when.
also a form of rotation point of view if you have components that are standing off too much too high. Yep, tell us about the vibration testing in this cuz that's a big deal. I've had a lot of experience vibration testing, electronics and parts you never think would vibrate off. You hit the resonant point on the board and boom that just pop, it just pops off.
Have you ever had any fires? No. So far we're quite good actually right? So you thought about it, you've because you knew you were gonna. You know about the most rugged very environment. Also, you know do you? the piece of piece itself are mostly small.
Alright, you know if you have if you're bigger ones and you're running into the resonance problem of the entire warpage if you don't support the board in the middle, it hit a resonant point, it's got a lower isn't a frequency and again and also you know they because we need to be so many are touching to all these components. you know you also have those them getting points. Oh God Would you put your boards in case them in like in the pony Like That's a lot of rugged environments will do that. Military environments they will just like.
we don't care about vibration because we're gonna pour our gooey and it's going to sit hard and nothing's gonna vibrate off. Is that this is something? Yeah, so that's because she's very hard once. you can get the rock-hard one so you can get Jill like silicon Jill one like Jill ones that are really in trouble you know so you can repair things and then fill them back up and did you? did you potting? Yeah we looked into some of those. You also want to.
The thing is as I told you I'm vacuum so you don't have any conductivity going on so you need to a convection going on so you need to thermally it's not really connected so this is why so you can get firmly in capsule at materials as well. Yes, why those are for example interesting for some of our publication, are you using those throwing in Negative: we are. This is something very crudely investigating what we need to do right? Okay I Worked on a military thing once where we have medically sealed the can, filled it with a nitrogen I think it was and nitrogen is a very good heat conductor so it would it would conduct the heat the oblique or bored out to the middle case. You know things like that and it got tricky. You know it was. Yeah, yeah, but there's only need to see the readings. We had to buy a whole machine that would actually sniff the seal to make sure there's no leaks and horrible. Yes, tell us about the camera.
Yeah, so the camera is pretty neat. so all three eyes. Exactly. So we have two white Anglo cameras which are useful driving.
Those are actually cam color sensors. Yep, debatable whether you need to but they come ask our site. Yeah, so we can. Also if you we can look at the doors.
Oh yeah. okay yes. yeah. you want an Earthrise shot? kind of.
you know. Yeah. Also, so we have the black-and-white sensor and and you said it's got the filter. Yeah, so it's at Elements And yeah there's a there's a real in front of it so that you can look at different wavelengths right? And it also allows us to to make a Giga pixel panorama.
No, it's just a stitch. lighting camera orders. No. now we do another.
Yeah, it's pretty high detail because you have 2 K by 2 K Yes, Okay so yeah and you said it can do 150 frames per second. Well yeah it's a it was a sensor that we found that is radiation hard and so purposes. Okay and it's gonna be 100 frames per second. you know, Awesome! You would be a driving pretty fast to need that.
but yeah exactly. But can your Hardware sustain that can you get the data out that quick? No no no we are. We're aiming at 15 frames per second right? Okay, how are you processing that in an FPGA Yep, Yep. So yeah we've been Mpg and then there's goes by Ethernet to to further processing guys via ethernet.
Yeah, you've got Ethernet link inside this thing. Yeah, that's interesting Why? Mostly because it's easy to debug. So yeah of course this is a separate module you can debug anyway. like yeah, this is one of the reasons you know that you when you're being dealing with with space stuff you can use always a space stuff.
But if you're using the space stuff it's expensive exactly And so we are aiming at technology that is that is easy to to use a nurse because then if you use something that's easy to use it will be tested and the more testing you have the better you are. The confidence is in being reliable. Exactly you know and so you don't want to do the funky stuff and do the stuff that works. you know and good solution because I ran for 40? Yeah, because you can. you can even talk to it in any operating system and it's very well supported. Otherwise, is there anything you also in the Ethernet parsing? they nobody knows. Probably just the radio, the camera. And oh okay, you're not behind like a little hub from the two dollar store.
Are you all right? There's um, there's something fancy going on. looks like we have. There's some switches I can use. So you've got one main camera which filters which is 2k what the other ones are - Parris there 2k.
So are they all the same? They are all the same essentially for non-electronic what a few day. All because the thing is that one of the things that is very important you know for us is to have enough time for testing. And if you if you use different cameras you can Isis you have to test them all the time. Exactly.
So we are Now we are looking to to reuse as much as possible. Yeah, and so we have. Actually we have three cameras there and one camera which is sitting at the bottom which is not in this right now right? that is for hazard detection so that you can. It's official.
So the real big yeah This is something that we for example found out was driving around with this one that you know it's very difficult to judge very what you're doing if you can't see the wheels. So and this was one of the things that helped us tremendously. Now, this is Not an autonomous rover. cannot operate autonomously.
If you guys can't talk to it, it's dead in the water. Yeah, it does nothing. All right. Yeah, so was that ever a design decision? Yeah, mostly.
Yeah, it's a thing. I Said autonomous autonomy is is great, but it's also computationally quite expensive. So one of the constraints is from a from an energy perspective, which results in the thermal constraint which results in the mass constraints. And you know.
So essentially we are. We were deciding that that we cannot sustain autonomy except for maybe as a test, but not not not a real-time autonomy. that was pretty fancy about something simple. for example, any accelerometers or anything else.
Fancy pantsy in this. Of course there's a There are many temperature sensors mu which is a gyro and accelerometer three-axis What's it useful? Well, you have to know the Rovers till yeah. This is exactly. This is really mostly for the feedback for the user because yep, we were talking to Gene Cernan who was I was at Pullo 70s and he told us that the most difficult thing is to judge whether you're going up or down.
Interesting. This is something that's very important to know if you're going down a slope your example. and but unfortunately, Marketo meters are quite useless, right? Yeah, of course there is no magnetic field and the most the most fancy steps are we actually having is it's an audio. Oh yeah. so if we are currently recording the body audio to the body, yeah, we can hear the clunk clunk. Okay, because yeah, it obviously doesn't transmit through the air, but it'll transmit through the shezzy. Exactly right. And this is so this is like I like a acoustic debugging aids.
so to know what's going on the rover I Don't think we don't have that audio from the such clunk clunk clunk from the rover's in the missions. No no no I don't think we know I don't think they had no any audio at all I think it was just video. yeah that's just video of them going. yeah they had no idea on the radio and and and the radio but that was that was it.
So that'll be really cool. Hilarious. Yeah and then can you? You know the you can hear the moment somebody screwed FPGAs galore. cuz you're an FPGA guy and you're an FPGA fanboy he's written, he's going if my controller lanes it's a language.
it briefly tell us about it because this is the electronics video. So yeah, I think it's uh, it's called the plain simple hardware description language which watch the acronym plane psht l PS HDL Yeah so it's It's aimed at its students that want to get into programming FPGAs and it's it's aimed at people that want don't want to suffer from the pain that V a very long provides you with. They're not easy are they VHDL and Verilog it's But it's the thing is that programming FPGA Aces is not easy and PSA she just makes it ever so slightly less painful. What's what's the pain point that you're overcoming? Um, first of all, the concept is so people are coming from from a software development is sequential program and then you know you have one statement, one statement, one statement executed in order and peace.
A question in an FPGA you are describing a network of correct registers which are connected with each other and you need to move your clocks and synchronous clock in. Yeah and you need to know temporal folding of signals that get too late and this stuff. it's a big challenge and also the de languages if for example VHDL they are so many so many trap for young players as you call them. yeah it's embarrass our slow they crash a lot.
yeah so I would so I'm aiming at you know pH I'm very product is actually you know not as academic as but it's just question is often st commercial truths. Very proud of that. Awesome people Download this. Yeah you can go to a PhD Underdog.
there's actually an online ID you can go start it and if you don't know what you want to do you can go to Waves dot PS HDL to talk which is a little game where you see some waveforms. Ryan you write some code and you need to match them and yeah good thank you very much Constant for the electronics will do other videos other videos this is all part of the series. Isn't it good? Yes the series of video gonna probably talk about space stuff next just awesome and space electronics. so I'll link it be he didn't have a look down here. Oh yeah Murder! So this is our motor drivers that is in here. What you can see is that we use those chemical pesticides relies for example but you could use panther for example. that would work and you tried to conform. leak out it.
yeah this was you know something. We went like oh we need to go Ah so it's a little bit wet so I just sprayed something on it's a it's a body job right? but I hope it's added to the protection. All right. Caston We're gonna unbox a Lunar Rover.
A Lunar Rover unboxing. Let's do it well. Wiggle II Wiggle in a Lunar Rover.
Correction: Engineers do pray. They pray that their calculations are correct. 😁
Wow! Inspired 💯
Very interesting conversation
thx a lot
waiting when Audi Lunar Quattro reach the Moon
Ohm my gosh you should try this application! Encounter androidcircuitsolver on google!
ATMEGA..Something… legit laughed at that part
why don't they use some thermal fluid system…like, pump it to outside walls and keep it there when they need to preserve heat, then pump it back to a reservoir in the middle of the rover during the day when they need to dissipate
Dave what do you think of the conspiracy theory that the old mars explorers sent up years ago have battery technology too useless to still be powering them?
Atheist much
you call lithium-ion exothermic?
You should rather say "because the lithium-ion batteries are" very slightly "exothermic, they" may slightly "heat up"
Lithium-ion is most energy efficient technology for batteries and that applies to all variations of chemistry
we are talking at 88% up to immense 99.98%
no rechargeable batteries comes even close
Ni-CD does around 62.5% and that is good with any Nickel based batteries
on another side Lithium based rechargeable batteries have very, very low ESR and they are capable of delivering say 6.8A (or more) in Energy Cell (the cell made for as high as possible energy storage, not for high current and not for mixture of both) and 15C to 25C for Power Cell (the one which is designed to deliver as high power as possible in short space of time)
15C for 1.5Ah would make 22.5A, which is not small current and this would not cause any significant rise in temperature (those are used in Power Tools and you need to work extremely hard to make those batteries heat up to any even remotely dangerous temperatures, normal usage would cause at best 50C when drained from 100% to 0% in one go at full capabilities of such battery)
Think about that
P.S. I am not certified, but if it comes to batteries I do understand pretty much everything about them
Nitrogen is not a good conductor of heat, not much different to air (which consists to 80% if it). hydrogen would be the best, but is flammable, what you often do not want. Helium is second best. Its only a question of molecule mass.
Now, 2 minute teardown 😀
Liquid nitrogen is -196C is close to -180C. Why is that hard? Just interested so constructive answers would be nice.
My comment is sure to be deleted. Here it goes anyway. So, electrical engineers are inquisitive and intelligent people. Even electronics hobbyists must have some natural brainpower to be into electronics. Now, why is it, that such intelligent people are not engaging in any debate about a bigger discourse. Space (no pun intended) does not permit here, so I will jump to my personal sincere conclusion: The earth is flat, and we are living under a dome. I cannot completely reckon the moon's substance, but I certainly doubt human ability to ever travel there. Karsten Becker is clearly a sell-out who is not beyond lying to public viewers. And, sad to say, David Jones, someone who has great intelligence is happy to play along. I think the akward head-bobbing (reptilian brain reaction) type conversation clearly illustrates this. You disappoint me fellas.
Gigapixel panorama of Apollo 17. I'm looking forward to that day.
so he admit is imposible to control something from far away. then he say they use s diferent thing but he never mention what really is or hw it really works. in the end he wss fishy to say what tech uses. because it uses same tech anyone can get and use which is also imposibe to control from so far sway. meaning is all bs.. nasa and space is a lie oeople. deeply research flat earth. stop beliving in science fiction. wake up to reality
Why not use compressed gas as a method of propulsion and cooling? Doesn't have to be hydrazine…
Wow! Such a cool video!
Can confirm everything about VHDL, being a young player coming from sequential programming. All you took for granted is gone: you have parallel processes, rising_edges, registers that get updated on the following clock cycle and screw you over, all sorts of jazz.
Once you get the hang of it, though, it gets better. You soo realize the power of an FPGA compared to a regular microprocessor, and get the board behaving as you like.
These rover videos are among the greatest things that I watched in Youtube EVER! Thank you very much for sharing this!
If one side is so hot and the other is so cold, the difference not enough for generating power…?
Muito bom, eu realmente amei o vídeo. Sua contribuição para a formação de outras pessoas pelo mundo é muito importante, obrigado por me trazer todo esse conhecimento e experiencia que se não fosse por você, eu não teria acesso.
That was excellent
I knew I've seen that guy before! He did that FPGA 101 presentation ages ago!
Sound like a crap with all that money no back up battery and using lithium on a moon robot it's a crap……
Wheels designed to get stacked!