Installing LED fluorescent tube replacements in the EEVblog LAB with before and after measurements.
Bonus theory material on fluorescent startup and LED tube design and dangers.
With Doug Ford from Doug Ford Analog Design:
http://www.dfad.com.au
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All right Douge, What are we up to now? Okay, uh I'm here with Dave Jones We're about to sling some lead lighting Ry lab to see if it makes any difference Improvement whatever because you manufacture your own lead Lighting in house as well as we manufacture, we import, we design for others. everything. Everything the works. because it is quite dark in the corner, there's Peter over in the corner he's checking out my mantis.

Um, it's It's probably darker than it actually looks. We'll get the Lux meter out. you've seen a previous video I've done with this. so um, at the moment I've only got the strip uh, two strip fluo so we've got some some uh LED fluorescent replacement yep and some long LED strip current driven for the bench now.

Awesome! What I figured we'd do is Baseline what you've got on the bench at the moment? Yep. I've drawn a mud map here of your side wall, back wall, bench, and the positions of these verticals mhm. just so we know what positions we've done Lux measurements at. We'll do befores and afters, before and after.

Okay, let's do it. So we've got two fluo replacement tubes, so we'll just replace this trough up here. both tubes in there I Think we'll try that one because you seem to spend more time at this end of the bench than the far end. Absolutely.

And we'll probably position the lead cubes which are 3 m long, yep, roughly evenly. Well, maybe pushed up towards this end of things simply because this is the dark end up. Here it is, and they're monsters. Check.

Oh oh, do they can you hold them in the yeah, Jaine? They're 3 m strips. They're 3 m strips and these are the ones you manufactur in house. Yes, Now we can basically do these in any length from uh 6 M up to 5 m. We happen to think that 3 m was about as long as we could fit in the car to carry over here.

and we've got LED drivers constant current drivers to suit these particular ones. Got it. And how much are these things going for? We haven't adequately priced these up yet, so I don't have an off the-shelf answer for you? Got it? Oh well, that's all right. Uh, if you want some, talk to dou, but yeah, we'll figure that out.

Look, we'll probably put it up on our website at some stage. Got it? So all right, so we're just going to hang those from the roof I Guess we are. Uh, we've got Clips to go with those. First thing though.

Measurements, measurements. Let's do it. Let's get our two Lux meters. Yep, now.

okay here we have. Let's pull them both over. We have my one hung low J Car cheapy and we have over here this beasty here from Spur Scientific, which is reputed to be significantly more accurate and comes with Nat test certificate. Excellent Now I Guess there's three parameters of a light meter that You' be interested in.

The first is how accurate is it at simply measuring light that comes Direct on? Yep. Uh, as far as I know, this one's good to about 1 or 2% I've got no idea what the accuracy of that one is I Have no clue. The second parameter of interest to you is the frequency response. Now, no light meters should not have a flat frequency response, right? Their frequency response should be in accordance with Ciee recommendations.
Who's Cie? Uh, it's French for international Commission of Standards or some such Really can't remember. but they have laid down the law with regard to what the Uh response of light meters should be and it should approximately correspond with the human eyes response to light. Got it? Which means that the response should look vaguely like that uhhuh, where the peak is in the yellow green end of things. Oh, this is wavelength versus uh, call it response.

Yep, it tapers off at the red, It tapers off at the blue. Um, the accuracy with which the sensors in the meters agree with that curve. uh should be on a good meter specified in the manual. Got it? Uh, In a second? I'll pull out the data sheets for this one and tell you what that is.

And of course you buy a one hung low JC Car Cheapy. and you're not going to get any of that info. They're not going to give you that particular specification. Okay The third parameter of interest is how the response of the sensor varies with the angle.

Yep, Ideally it should have a coine response. Which means that if this is your sensor down here mhm, if it has a response of say Unity units got it on axis. The response once you go off axis should be proportional to the cosine of that angle. So the COS of 0 is one of of course.

MH Uh C of 60 is5 Mhm. Uh, C of 90 is 0. So it should have a response that looks remarkably like that. Got it? Which is coincidentally exactly the same.

Uh pattern is the emission pattern from a Lambur. LED Lambur. Yeah, please explain uh to quite Paul Uh Well, a lambion response is this cosine type response. and it's in the case of Uh LED emission.

It's because your LED corresponds to basically a hole in the universe that emits light. If you view that hole side on there to say you're going to get you get you should see nothing because it's a flat hole in the universe. Full output should be viewed there. as you go off off angle.

the amount of uh area of the lead that you see becomes less and less and less. So the amount of light that you get to see over here is a whole lot less than the amount of light there simply because the angle that you're seeing yep is a whole lot less than the angle that I Discovered exactly the same thing of course with my solar air heater when I was designing my solar air heater because the infrared energy from the Sun you know if it's not at the correct angle, it you is SE in in the afternoon sun. Even though it might be hotter, it might be better. It might have greater intensity.

That angle screws you. So fortunately, with any of these things, because it is a cosine law, you can be a number of degrees off M and it doesn't really matter all that much. Yep, uh, you might drop from 100 to9 to8 You only get to 50% once you're seriously off. Angle right.
Same thing applies for Photov Voltaic cells. It does, indeed. If you're chasing those last fractions of a percent of efficiency. yeah, aim them properly.

MH If you're just after order of magnitude of pickup, well, as long as you're vaguely in the right direction of the sun, you'll be right in most light measurements. For commercial installations, you only want to be within what 10% or something you know, you don't really care. I Can't remember that. Critical for legal purposes.

Yes, you have to have light meters that are down to sub 2% Mhm. For practical intents and purposes, 10% is probably going to be good enough right there you go, but there, because in commercial lighting, there are legal restrictions on how much light you need. MH minimum. Yes, y uh, you do need to have uh, calibrated, and uh, preferably n referred uh meters.

Okay, let's go into Frog Hol and you got to get your big ugly out of the way too. What does what does mine say? I'm 104 I'm 155 I'm 169, 393 393 Just as an as side to the best of my knowledge, the legal requirement for uh uh, office desks is around about the 350 Mark 485 393 And can you remember what we got down there? It was about 160 165 or something. Yeah, down in the spooky Corner 510 a should be working down that end. Yes, 510 486, 486 He could probably edit the hell out of this later.

and last but not least, interested in the bench. We don't care what it's like around the rest of the room. No. I don't care.

No I can switch off the lights in the rest of room. Doesn't matter, right? Let's talk about replacements for fluorescent tubes. Mhm. We've seen some good ones and we've seen some not so good ones.

They're overcompensating there. Doug The size of your fluo tube? There, it's a 4-footer It's a 4f footer. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right. Tell us all about these Fluo replacement shoes because they're are so they have a sorted history, don't they? Yes, Okay for a starter. Uh, many of the early lead fluo tubes just did not have an output brightness anywhere within hailing distance of a fluo tube. Mhm.

Now a standard fluo tube. Uh, well. the power input to it might be about 35 wats their efficacy might be with the order 70 Lumen per watt. so 35 watt time 70 Lum per watt.

Uh, round numbers maybe 2200 2300 lumens but a lot of the early ones were lucky if they put out 1,000 lumens course leads going back 3 four 5 years ago for using those just didn't have the efficacy. Okay, they do now have the efficacy. Uh, a typical not efficiency by the way. I've efficacy I've done a video on that.

There is a big difference between efficacy and efficiency. Yes, you want to check that out. look at my video. Uh oh, just as an A side.
Typically the efficiency of a blue LED these days can be as high as 55% That's getting on towards Benchmark for cream of the crop Cre there leaders still in the Blues pretty much so. Uh, Lumi leads and a few others are playing catchup. Um I tend to concentrate on using both Cre and Lumi leads. Uh, use of Nishia? Yep, once you get into into the lower power Min power type Lads rather the high power stuff and occasional foras into other brands.

but I tend to concentrate on those two crore lumads in green. LEDs There's not as much focus in improving the efficacy of green leads because green leads are only used for producing green light. Uh, blue leads are used for producing white light white which is what we want. Yeah, so all of the focus is on Blue leads.

So blue Leads: 55% You put a watt into them, you can get up to 550 M of radiant blue energy out of them. Mhm Greens: 15% on a good day. Reds? don't know I really don't know where? where? Who cares? it's red. Uh, I care.

but that's person. All right. we've dealt with efficacy on these now. Let's get into the whole wiring safety side of things.

Now, you've previously talked about the wiring of a typical fluo tube. Yep, where you have a fluo tube which has got filaments and generally what you're doing is, you're bringing in your active Mhm, putting it through a current limiting choke into a filament, there, return to neutral there, and in between you're putting a starter. Yep, so that, uh, well, that's normally on at startup. apply power Here you get a current flow through the current limit, induct, current limiting inductor through the filaments through directly through that do not pass, go.

or actually I think that well, I'll come back to that one through the filament back to neutral. The filaments are warming up. Yep This beasy is warming up now. I I Don't think I've drawn that correctly.

I Think that what actually goes on inside starters is a little bit more complex because I think that what we've got in there is a gas discharge tube mhm in series with a B metal strip switch. Yep This beasty. The starter has a tube filled with Argon. I Believe that the Argon tubes start ionizing at about 100 volts across them.

so we have current flow through this path through that which is ionizing its head off for a few tens of milliseconds, preheats the filaments through the current flowing through it. m When that heats up, that switch, Op opens up and if you've timed it just right, not necessarily, but that is opening up a current flowing through an inductor which throws a hell of a kickback spot. Kick back. Yep.

typically aided and abetted by a 1 Narad capacitor across there, such that okay, we've got a sine wave voltage there that interrupts. We get a a huge ringing waveform voltage there, which is enough to break down this Mercury tube which requires maybe a 600v spike to start ionizing once it's conducting that conduction voltage, then Falls from 600 volts down to maybe 120 odd volts Mhm. Okay, at which point this one doesn't have enough voltage across it to continue, uh, ionizing him. and it's the tube that this effectively drops out of circuit.
Yep, and we've simply got current flowing down the tube and returning there. So far, so good. Ideally what we want to do with a lead fluo tube is come along, take out the glass fluo and put in the LED equivalent. Not so easy.

Not so easy. Okay, first of all, I'll show the ideal way of doing this. The first thing we do is we pull out the starter and we replace it with a short circuit. Mhm.

The next thing we do is and you can buy those just in the standard starter package. Or do you physically rip out the starter holder and short out the wires? Uh, no. The best way is uh, to remove the starter and put in your short circuit starter. You just say you can buy short circuit starters or you just make your.

They generally accompany suitable tubes right now. Again, this is ideally this is the way it should be done. and so often isn't the tube. The LED equivalent tube that you come along with has a driver here to drive the leads.

Mhm which is powered from well, let's just say those two pins down there and is equipped with a short circuit there. Mhm. This means that once you've repl, place the starter and plug this tube in. When you apply power, you get current flow through the short circuit through that short circuit into that driver and return.

If you're really Keen, you can bypass that starter inductor. Yeah, so sorry. bypass the inductor. Uh, because even though the LED tube might draw any maybe half the current of a real fluo tube, that inductor is still responsible for.

Maybe a watt? Two, Watts three? Watts. Okay, you don't want to be pissing away a couple of Watts You can fly to the moon on a fly to Jupiter on a couple of Watts You could. However, having said that, in some fluorescent fixtures, when you are doing retrofits, that can be an absolute mongr to get to, so leave it in circuit. Got it? You may also have to leave in circuit the power factor correction cap which ought to be fitted in there Uh to correct for the Uh with leading current through there for the lagging current through the original fluo circuit.

Okay, so that's the ideal. That's what should happen on a good day. Why doesn't it? Okay, what we've seen is a few variants on this theme. In variant number one, they don't have that short circuit there.

You can only feed the tube. you've got you. You have to dive into the the uh, the fluorescent, the fluorescent uh circuit to modify it. So you got to modify the trough itself.

the wiring in the trough. Yes, you have to dive in so that you're applying your Main's power directly to just the one end. just the one end. Why would any idiot design it like that? Uh, on the grounds of safety.
Ah, do tell. There are other variants on the theme where your LED tube has its driver in there and it's powered from those two pins in parallel and from those two pins in parallel. Mhm. Okay, picture this.

Hang on. Uh, do you want to pause it for SE redraw. You have a Fluro Batton wired up and it's got yeah, so that. go to there.

It's got a starter or short circuit there. Okay, you've got a fixture that's wired like that. So we come along with one of these tubes and somebody's forgotten to turn off the mains. Uhhuh.

Okay, you get that end of the tube wangled up into that connector at that end. Uh, while you're busy holding that end down there, providing a lovely return path for current to ground via the ballast, it becomes a serious shock hazard. Yeah, and people have, uh, to the best of my knowledge, nobody has been killed, but there have been a number of instances of electric shock through exactly this kind of line. I Assume they're banned in Australia those tubes.

They technically you can't can't import them. Yep, they are now, right? Uh, but they were for sale at one point, so there's probably some still out there. Yeah, yeah, there are. There's another variant on this theme whereby that driver basically each of those four pins feeds a.

Oh, this is getting a bit fat. A diode. That one feeds a diode. Those two also feed.

You guessed it. Mhm. Okay, so the driver is driven from the positive and negative. So with a tube like this, it doesn't matter which pins you feed with power.

You can feed those two with power. You can feed those two with power, you can feed those two with power. You can feed any pin combination with power and your tube Sparks up. Mhm.

Guess what? this also means with this form of tube, you get one end in there and you're in a position to receive a shock at the other end exactly. In actual fact, in in both of the cases I've mentioned so far, the current has to pass through the driver. for example, in here, up through there, down through there. and if we're going out that pin there say out through that pin there so that driver is responsible for some voltage loss, but we might only be talking about 50 100 volts out of the 240 available.

Yep, it's still live and ugly. So that's another variant on the theme that you really don't want to see around the place. Got it? But and but you shouldn't If you're buying New tubes, you shouldn't But maybe if you're buying 100 lows on eBay you could be in for a shock no pun intended. There is yet another variant on the theme recently seen where in the Fluo tube the fluo tube is correctly? WI With the driver in here being fed safe from those pins there, we've got the short over here correctly so far or groovy.

Doesn't matter which end you kind of get in, you can't get a shock from the pins. The issue being in this case that this driver is a nonisolated type Mhm. So the leads that it's driving. But all of those leads because this is a nonisolated driver, it doesn't actually have a there's no Transformer transform in there are effectively at Mains potential Mhm.
The unfortunate thing is insulation between the LEDs on their PC and the aluminium heat sink. oh yes, becomes wholly reliant on the rather scrawny thickness of mile or whatever it is on the PCB between the leads and the generally metal cord PCB and there's a lot of surface area there to go wrong. Oh yes, indeed. Oh nasty.

So that's another issue you can get and I have heard again uh, Tales of heat sinks becoming live Mhm and unfortunately I recently had some where we were measuring the heat sink live. Oh, we got in a batch of of 120 tubes yep and several of them had punch through. Nasty. Were still the punch through couldn't be measured with a DMM which is only putting two three Bs on.

Yes, it was occurring at high voltage. so you need a mega to you got it Mhm And are they legal? Uh, those ones? No, No, okay, no, not in this country Anyway, No. In order to comply with Australian standards, Um, uh. Apart from going through the uh, the how do you put it the EMC uh, emissions and Immunity side of testing, they also have to go through safety testing for lumines.

Got it? And there are specific standards for there if you give me long enough I'll remember what they are I can't remember them off the top of my head, but there are tested standards that they have to comply with for such. so ruin. So that's all the types. H It's all the types I can think of.

There's probably half a dozen dangerous types that I haven't yet seen and am likely to come across. Got it now? I will warn you. The couple of tubes which I've bought along today to put up in the ceiling are of the type with the if you like the bridge rectifier off each pin so they are dangerous. We will want to be powering down the fittings before we put them in.

Got it. On the upside, they are an isolated topology so the the frame is unlikely to become live unlikely. Well look at it this way, less likely than the non-isolated type. Hey look, we could even do a tear down on one of these, but they are an absolute mongr to put back together I can imagine.

Yeah, it have to be sacrificial. Yeah my you. I think I've got some sacrificial ones back at the factory so maybe I'll bring in a few different types. Oh, there was one tube type that we had to write a commercial report on.

They were having horrible reliability problems. Apart from being one of the unsafe types that I mentioned, they also had a problem with the driver track clearances on the PCB on the driver were of the auto 15 th and 20 th for tracks that had 340 Vols between them. And there were there were bombs w for a transient so they could explode or waiting for a bit of dust to settle and then Arc over. Yeah, yeah, so that was one of the ugliest ones because when those particular tubes blew, it was really quite catastrophic.
and because they had inadequate internal protection and fusing, they would just blacken completely along a good third or half of the length and a lot of heat. A lot of fumes. It was, uh, how do you put a high energy incident instead of just being F Yeah, how does that go again as opposed to Kaboom where's the Earth shattering? Kaboom All right, let's say we install these. Yeah, let's wake a couple up.

There should be a power board up there somewhere. Yeah, well, kind of sort of power point I Think I'm going to have to take that one out, which means probably a bit of dust on the dust on the equipment. Yep, there we go. We got it.

Okay, which means if I'm lucky that that will turn things off. Yay! Hey there we go. So now we can get into these favorite oh I Hate these bastards. Yeah, they're pain in the ass.

TI As n nasty Yeah, you've got to. uh, lift the trough up to and then slide the tube out one end. It's oh, that's ridiculous. Yeah, the troughs are a bit dodgy.

Now in these cases we can take those out and save them. Suck me with bu pump. Okay, Chuck's a ladyy one and our new LED he's going up. Yeah, that's if I can get it in.

Okay, that's one if your fluo Batten is fitted with high frequency ballasts instead of good old 50 HZ 60 HZ magnetic ballast. They're good old magnetics. Yep, you can tell that they got high frequency ballast because they won't have starters. And if you're not aware the reason they uh, we there we go, we're up.

The reason they use PowerPoints for these things is so that when they build these buildings the uh uh, just the regular uh grunt contractors can install the lighting. You don't have to have an A Sparky in here. One of the things that we'll do is even though that looks fairly clear, we're going to give that little wipe over. They're a real pain in the butt.

Those things? Okay, that one settled. Hey Okay, it doesn't look like the same color temperature. It actually looks like a lower color temperature. What you've got up there does.

It does look like it's this. Almost certainly will not show up on camera. but these these are all 4,000 which I I thought you said these ones were 5,000 Oh no, sorry I'm mistaken, they are 5,000 Now we're installing those uh, hangers for the lights, which we're going to hang them from the ceiling so we don't have to alter the ceiling in any way. and let's get bit a tou.

Oh okay, now we'll leave that off for a second. We'll do a quick Lux measurement right out of these than out of our fluo tubes. but our fluo tubes were not sparkly. New ones like you got I've got the Quad I've got the quad phosphor.

the new technology quad phosphors so which actually probably have an efficacy that's getting up into the 90 plus Lumen per watt region. Yes, they would be. Well, they are the duck scuts. So uh yeah, so those aren't going to be that great.
but we'll take some measurements, we can put the other ones back. It should be actually pretty much on parody gone up to 540 540 here. Actually call it 535 535. Wow, that's surprising cuz it looks dimmer.

It really does high response possibly to the lower. Yep, it's certainly a different color temperature. so uh okay. um want to call that 515 515.

It is more. but it's but the the color temperature is really disconcerting. That's the uh okay, 415 Yep, still more and in frog Hol Uh 171. Ah, smidgen half a bees dick.

It went up way okay. so bottom line is though, we've dropped consumption from 35 to 40 WTS per tube down to 17 WTS per tube. Brilliant. Yeah, no pun intended.

In each of these tubes, we've got five 600 mm lengths, right? Each 600 mm length has eight leads basically wide and series parallel to present four leads worth of voltage drop Mhm. So with the five strips, we've got a total uh stack height if you like of 20 leads worth or around about at 3 Vols per lead about 60 volts, right? We're going to be driving that at 350 Milliamps Mhm. So that's around about 20 WS per length. The efficacy of the leads? Uh, well, each lead at 350 milliamps has an efficacy of I Think it was about 90 7 Lumen per watt or something like that.

Because we're only running them at 175 milliamps per lead, the actual efficacy is going to be much close to about 110 Lum per watt. So 20 wats at 110 Lum per watt. We're probably looking at 2200 lumens per strip. If if we wanted to, we could drive it way harder than that.

Efficacy had slip some, but the amount of light would be horrendous. Well, we don't want a horrendous amount of light. Oh yes, we do. That's your business.

Horrendous amount, horrendous amounts of light. Okay, so let's uh, let the hanging commence. Okay, these particular strips were designed for a local Australian Lighting Company opal lighting which have been already used with uh, considerable success in one of their installations at an energy conscious College somewhere up North near Tamworth or T I Believe Cesn, right Cesn. and how many per strip? Again, cuz there's the joining connector.

Yep, joining connector. eight leads per strip. Here's the next joining connector here and is that probably the limit of how long you can make the board based on the PCB panel. I Have been told that there are uh, companies not in Australia who can manufacture strips up to 1200 mm in a single pass.

Uh, that's pushing the friendship in physical handling in the manufacturing process for doing the Smt loading and solding. Oh, absolutely. and you probably paying a premium for it too. So introducing all those problems, you might as well put make them the limit of a regular panel so anyone can manufacture it.
stick a connector on and yeah, yep, as it is, these have been uh, locally loaded and and they done a damn good job of it. Terrific! Uh RAM Onics same place that you got some of your PC my microcurrent assembled. Yes, just so we have had a bang. Yeah right.

it's a definitely gone splatty around. Well, it's a top brand. It shouldn't fail. Top band? Yeah, Top band.

Uh I've actually done a fair bit of work with these guys. Something gone horribly wrong. Okay, tear down cuz it was a significant bang. Yeah, that was was yeah.

it might have uh tripped the uh circuit breaker on the bench as well. Quick. No trace of anything nasty there. however.

o definit a trace of something particularly ugly. Oh oh, that's huge. Charing Look at that. Oh dear, Deary Me: You want? You want to know what's happened here? What's happened? The PCB has been inserted into correctly into the plastic.

Oh no. So what we've done is apply the mains up the output. We plugged it in back to front in effect. Yes, in effect, there's only two ways to M it up and we got it.

Well, no. Hang on I I'll show you what we made in a second. Oh, this is hilarious. That's s right.

Aha, You can see by the topology you can that that is obviously where the main should go in. Yeah, that's where the EMC filtering, Bridge Rec and switching device are. This is the output side where so what actually blew the the cap didn't blow there, did it? No. The output sense resistor.

Oh, there we go. Is that all? Yeah, that's all. So if we crack it open, we can see that it sits in the base. On some there's no slots in the oh yeah, there's a slot in the PCB there.

Yeah, there's a locating slot. There's a locating slot there so that sits in there like that. And but it was in. no, no, no, it was in the base the right way around, right? Oh, the top was.

yeah. the top is symmetrical on the base to the top is put on like that instead of like that actually like that instead of like that that cuz there's the mains input here because you can see the topology of course. as we said, and that's some serious charring down in there that's just nasty. Very, very nasty.

Look at that. It's really fried. that board. It's just one of these.

Um, it's not like An4 um, grade fiberglass board. It's one of those crappy phenolic base on. So I'm surprised the cap didn't blow. Uh, there wasn't enough energy on there long enough.

the sense resistor ruptured before it could do any Upstream damage. Yep, that's what it was supposed to do. But all that just from the lousy sense resistor. Yeah, really.

yeah. it's a hell of amount of energy. It's a large component. It's got rather a lot of magic green steam in there.

When components rupture, the magic green steam comes up and blackens the surroundings. The larger the component, the more green steam it's got in it. I Thought the green cap would have had a whole bunch of it. Oh, they have even more green stream, but it's harder to let out.
And there we go. We can see some beautiful closeup destruction there on the board. You can see it's just absolutely fried. There would have been a whole bunch of flames.

No, just a single blast, single blast. Yeah, and people wonder why we talk about multimeter safety and all that sort of stuff. You know if you're holding if You were holding this, if your hand was around there when this in went Kaboom then uh would have could have been quite serious. you probably would have CED a thermal burn, not a shock.

Yep now I'm just wondering how much of that is. Yeah bit spit there. Yep there and a lot of that is simply plated on carbon. Yep from the blast and how does it smell Doug like Victory I Love the smell of CH Electronics in the morning.

Okay so we have left over all right one death lead. We have reset our circuit breaker and Tada we have and that's kind of what they should look like. Yeah, all right now. Aesthetically, most people would not like looking at.

no, you would want to widely diffused uh, or widely spaced leads like that point source leads. yeah no. but once you get them up in the ceiling, casting light without the necessity, without the necessity to look at them, or once you get them behind diffusers, they're marvelous. So now we're hanging them up on these hangers that, uh, just well hang.

go figure from the Uh tiles up there or the metal strips between the tiles so you don't have to modify rotate them a little further. anything. I Plug and play first. Oh okay, yeah, yep, let's plug it in.

Okay, this is rather interesting. They are definitely 4,000k Incidentally with this with a color rendering index of 82. they are claim to have a uh, a color of 4,000k but it's actually probably close to about 4,000 2, 200 odd figure Mhm compared to the 5,000 down there. Yeah, Done.

Okay, now we're going to have to come back to put the second one up because we need a new driver driver. Oh, that's embarrassing measurements. There has to be a kaboom. Unbelievable.

Ah, Unbelievable. I'm going to be writing an email to them I I Know already they are going to be horribly horribly embarrassed by by the whole thing because they they are a mega big company and they take pride in what they do as you would with a name called Top Band. Why aren't they top brand? Did they forget the are uh no. they because they kicked off in life manufacturing Automotive components and have Diversified into all kinds of lighting product.

They make cameras uh yeah. like Ccds GPS systems. Uh, a lot of different kinds of lighting including induction lighting which is rarely seen Australia Okay we up. We've got our two strips installed and we've got our new LED uh uh, replacement fluo strips up there.
What are we reading? 298 298. So practically Hol we started out 165 Okay So we've almost doubled. Spot on 600. Try 725 W 725 Smashed it out of the park.

Almost good enough for surgery. Not quite okay. 845 845 Get out of here. We started out at 485 and that one is.

well, if we Get that out of the way, 725, 725 So here we go. Here's our final figures in the bench over in the corner the darkest part of the lab here 165 and we went up to 298. That's actually almost legal. You're almost allowed to do paperwork in the corner, right? That's almost 16.

Then all right. We start at 393, which is my main soldering area. That's what we started out at, which is pretty. You know 400 is probably adequate for that.

Jumped up to 72 25. go figure. And the peak is in my te over over my tear down bench here, which went from 485 to 845. Woohoo! And then it tapers off down here and down near the MakerBot.

It's shielded and we think it's tube warm up over there going from 282 to 304. That's probably simple warm up in the fluo tubes. Yep, that's probably it. Awesome.

Same with this increase 486 to 540. This area is probably getting bit over spill from the tubes up here, but not a lot. So there you go, you got enough work to do proper Electronics with. One of the things that you have to remember is that your vision tends to have a roughly Square law sorry square root law proportionality.

If you go, you have to go four times as bright measured Yep, for it to be roughly twice as bright as as as you perceive Y. So let's say you increase the brightness by factor of two. Mhm. As far as your eyes concerned, you've only increased it by a factor of 1.4 40% brighter.

Yep, so that's why measured numbers here. Even though we've roughly doubled a lot of those brightnesses, your perception of that it does isn't isn't as yeah doesn't really correlate. It's also colored and flavored by color temperature. Yep, of course.

And of course what you're used to as well. Yeah, it's a mental thing, but probably what you are going to find yourself is when you do start work. Suddenly going to realize oh, I'd have had to have put an extra life here to do this. Have to.

Oh cool, sweet and they look pretty groovy hanging from the strips. There we we'll replace the tile. Yeah. I Was about to say once the ties back up there, they'll be almost aesthetic.

There you go: I might even cable time up the clips or something you know be all wanky and W the wiring proper like yeah, yeah I Like it. Thanks Douge and you can catch Doug at Doug Ford Analog design I'm zooming into your little logo there. a brilliant dad.com Au He's got some cool stuff on his site. Check it out if you want! LEDs He's the man.

Yeah, we've even got little bits and pieces to sell too. Awesome! Thanks Doy! See the web shop w.

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By YTB

22 thoughts on “Eevblog #362 – led tube lighting install theory”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jason Day says:

    I'm down for horrendous amounts of light.

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars conodigrom says:

    You know you're pretty high in the EE ranks when Doug Ford installs your alibaba led panels.

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Kevin Beckenham says:

    Could we have Doug Ford do lecture on photovoltaic panels

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars The Kaiser says:

    The LED light is green…

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Tom Jones says:

    Doug is one of those people I could listen to for hours…a very smart and interesting guy.

  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Kris M says:

    Getting slightly more lumens at about half the power by going from FL tubes to led tubes?
    That must've been very very bad FL tubes, or a misstatement that they were 35 to 40W.

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars BlackEpyon says:

    What I learn from watching Big Clive and EEV… America has rather primitive electrical safety standards compared to Australia and the UK. I'm jealous.

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars The Sqoou says:

    Oh MAN I have ALWAYS wanted to know how those ballast systems worked and how LED lights are swapped in.
    This guest made it super easy to understand.
    Thanks guys !!!

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Matthew Holevinski says:

    tight as a nuns what now!?

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars SimoWill75 says:

    Nice install, the colour temp seems to suit the camera nicely, even if you have AWB. The vid has a much more natural look when cam is shooting into that corner than it does when you're shooting back toward the door where there are still fluoro's. Plus, skin tones look more natural too. No idea if it's better for you in person, but definitely looks better on cam.

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars rallokkcaz says:

    This is one reason I love electrical engineering, the guy designing high end mics for Rode can install your fluorescent lighting and do it with style. It just shows how versatile of a skill EE is, and how wonderfully complex it can be.

    Thank you so much Dave, I've been binge watching your videos for the past couple months. And even though I don't always understand fully just seeing somebody who knows what they're doing really sticks with me. Maybe it's pride but your enthusiasm makes me feel like I can actually tackle EE.

    Thanks again Dave,
    -Zack, from NY USA

  12. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Shmeh Fleh says:

    These drop-in florescent replacement LEDs have come a long way in the last few years. I just picked up four of these from Costco for 20 bucks apiece, and I'm loving them. They're plenty bright, they turn on instantly, and they're not affected by cold temperatures. They replaced a bunch of old 8-foot T12 tubes in my garage, which took forever to get bright during the winter.

  13. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars rchandraonline says:

    oh, yeah….gotta have a good Marvin the Martian line.

  14. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Walter Taggart says:

    Numb n

    Man

  15. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Mike Hagen says:

    Just watch this interesting experiment.  Don't they need to adjust the last Led Tubes
     for the distance lower on the wire hangers?
    I really enjoy all the EEVblog videos, haven't seen a dull one yet!
    Thanks, Mike (EE Retired)

  16. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars John Borchers says:

    I'm enjoying your videos I just started watching. I'm an Software Engineer by trade with a necessary minor in Electronic Engineering. But actually no completed degree. Like you say. If you have the want, you have the will.

  17. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Olaf Marzocchi says:

    LED strips and LED bulbs are nice but at least in Europe they are still far from being cheaper than fluorescent or CFL lights, since the efficacy and power consumption are comparable (75 vs 75-100 lm/W) but the initial price is way higher.

  18. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars David Keenan says:

    I really enjoyed Doug Ford & this episode. His gentle pace calmed Dave's usually-hyperactive talking, resulting in a great, well-paced video!!!

  19. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ivy Nova says:

    Square root law?  I think the term he's looking for is 'Inverse Square Law'.

    All those years of physics paying off >.>

  20. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ivy Nova says:

    he problem with red LED's is that when a red LED gets strong enough you basically might as well be using a .5 milliwatt red laser diode…

  21. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jordan Reese says:

    I hear high pitch whining coming in and out after the first tube installed in the ceiling.

  22. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Mick Pedder says:

    I don't think there was a fair comparison between the original tube and the LED, due to the fact that the diffuser was cleaned down prior to energising the LED.

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