Dave investigates the Amazon Kindle 3 reset/lockup problem that countless people have been having with the leather case.
Is it the metal tabs shorting something out, or something else?
I don't have a real non-light case, if someone does and wants to donate it for experiments please get in contact!
Is it the metal tabs shorting something out, or something else?
I don't have a real non-light case, if someone does and wants to donate it for experiments please get in contact!
Hi Welcome to the Eev Blog an Electronics Engineering Video blog of interest to anyone involved in Electronics Design. I'm your host Dave Jones Hi I've seen reports in the last couple of days about the Amazon Kindle 3. There's been a problem with it. People who have bought one of these uh, genuine Amazon covers for it, the one without the light.
They're saying that the things are resetting all the time. you. thousands of people apparently are getting this problem and Amazon um have actually been replacing them. They will replace it, but apparently sometimes it doesn't even fix the problem.
So there's something going on here and people have asked me to check it out. so let's do just that now. I Don't actually have one of these covers? Uh, that doesn't have the light. This is a friend of mine.
he uh loaned this to me and it's got the LED light on it now. Apparently this cover does not cause this uh, lockup problem but I figure it's a good enough uh represent presentation cuz I've looked at the photos and it looks like the Um attachments and everything which we'll go into are identical. um, except for the fact that they painted on this one. So um, on the non-light version.
So that's not going to stop me investigating not having the exact cover. I Think we can do some reasonable investigation without it. Now the first thing I want to look at are these contacts here because um I saw this on slash dot or via slash dot. Somebody had actually noticed uh, that on the case that this problem is, they're They're not the brass tabs like this or they're still brass, but they're actually covered.
uh, black. They're completely uh, painted over in black paint. They're not gold like this, but apart from that, they're actually identical. retention Clips This one up here slides and they're the same shape and everything, but they're painted black now.
Uh, this person noticed that it had after uh, continual insertion and removal of the Kindle it had started. Some of the paint had started to wear off and was exposing some of the metal. Now, they actually measured the resistance between these two Terminals and they actually uh, measured something. Well, that turned out to be incorrect.
It was actually 2 megga ohms they measured, but apparently um I think they were touching the probes at the time, so there's there was no Um I've heard that there is no issue on actual resistance between these two terminals on the cover in question, and even though this isn't the Cas in question just for completeness, I will actually measure the resistance between the two terminals. Uh, on here and as you can see on this version, it's um, it's open basically, so that's what it should be on the real version as well. So there's no electrical contact between here. So the uh prevailing theory is that these contacts are wearing away or and or they're touching something internally to the Kindle Now we'll actually have a look at this.
I've actually taken my Kindle apart and we'll actually investigate whether or not these contacts, if they're totally exposed, can actually short something inside the Kindle which can cause it to, uh, lock up or reset or something like that. Now just to show you up close what this contact is actually like, this is the bottom contact here and as you can see, it's a curved piece of brass like this and the case under question is an identical one, but it's painted black so that's the bottom contact and this one here is the top contact and as you can see, it's brass also, but it, um, it slides like that to accommodate the Uh. that actually allows it to lock the Kindle to lock in place so that it doesn't fall out. So these are identical on the other case, so let's see if these can, actually, uh, short out anything inside the Kindle at all. Now let's actually take a look at the mechanism itself. Okay, the Kindle goes into this bottom slot down here at an angle like that and then it clips into through the two slots on the side of the Kindle into this top one and as you can see, it can't fall out at all. No problems. It's kind of a neat little design I don't mind it at all.
and then to release it, you simply slide that back and it pops out like that and let's flip it over and take a good look at these particular Uh hooks in some detail, shall we? Now here's the bottom hook down if I can get that to focus. Here is the bottom hook down here and as you can see, there are four contacts. Now these contacts are the Um serial interface and there they are in the order. The top pin is uh, the Uh TX, the next one is RX, then ground, and then there's a mystery pin which will find out what that is in a minute.
Now this is the Rs232, Um Uart serial interface to the Uh internal monitor program for the main Um microcontroller in the Kel and um, there's been a few hacks, people. Um, accessing that sort of data to try and hack the Kindle. But that's what we're concerned about, these four pins in here, and the theory that we're going to try and bust here. That or confirm that the Uh, that somehow the metal, this big metal contact down here shorts out, Um, several, one or several, or all of those pins in there, or contacts something else to reset the Kindle.
Now the other Um one up here is just a sing single contact. Now if we take a look at this, okay, let's get some focus on that. There's actually a flex Uh membrane with a single connection with a single screw and then a single contact like that. So this one's very simple.
We've only got one contact to worry about up there, so we got four down, the bottom, one, up the top. Let's find out what they do. Focus on the bottom one here and thankfully, four screws allow us to completely remove this top connector and as you can see, the contacts are actually um, staggered. These ones connect to the PCB but the other ones in there are staggered so that it actually connects the ground and the other pin first and then the other two later. And that's a common Uh concept inside connectors. Here's the actual board with the four contacts. These are the pads that uh, make contact with the Uh pins we saw and as you can see, this one is actually uh, grounded. this the um.
second pin. From the bottom, there is ground, so all this exposed, uh, goldplated copper all along this outer Point here is all connected to the ground so we don't have to worry about that pin which comes through the the actual retention clip from the case shorting out. Uh, that ground because it's going to, you know, touching anything in there. As you can see, there's nothing else in there at all for it to short to.
So the only thing it can possibly short to is physically inside these two connectors here inside these four contacts in inside the connector. So let's actually plug that up. Now if you see, this will actually flip directly over like this and it will plug in like this, this is what it will actually go in like when you plug it in. So you put it in like that if I can get it and then it flips around and it looks like it does make contact with all four of those pins.
I've got the connector in here Now let's see which pins actually make contact with the outer lug. sh We The bottom one does no problems at all. the top one does and so does RX but it looks like that's it. It looks like when it's plugged in like that.
uh, the top one TX The transmit pin as you'd expect, does not make contact because uh, that can actually drain the battery if, um, that's transmitting. If that pin is transmitting something out, you don't want to be shorting that to ground. So um, but that could happen. So we'll try that as part of our experiment to see if that causes the problem.
but we know when you plug this in, three of those bottom pins are grounded. Now to make our experiment a bit easier, what I've done is I've attached a wire to this terminal up here. Just allow us to do some um, handre actual clipping onto that terminal and a ground Point here as well. Now I Prove that this one is actually a ground Point by uh, measuring between here and the second bottom pin which as you can see, it's 0.
Ohm, So it's actually that's part of the grounded circuit. And we'll start out by just measuring the base states of all these pins on this connector. Okay, this one down the bottom is uh, almost 1.8 Vols Okay, the second one is obviously ground cuz it's connected up there. We proven that and the third one's also 1.8 Vols and the top one is 1.8 Vols as well.
and the Kindle is on. By the way, it's actually switched on. There it is and from experiments other people have done I Do know that the top two uh pins up here are transmit and receive. As I've said transmit, receive and ground the Rs232 uart uh interface here. So I'm not going to concerned with those pins, but this bottom pin um I has me, uh, concerned I Want to know what this pin actually is? My guess is this bottom pin down here is actually an input. Now the reason I suspect this is because I reckon this metal contact down here makes cont with these pins down here and outputs of voltage on this top pin cuz we know it has to drive this Led. Now the Kindle's turned on so it must output a voltage across here and here. But we've already measured this pin up here and we're getting nothing.
so there must be some scent circuit which switches that on and my guess is that it's the bottom pin down here. Let's check it out now. I'm measuring the top output here relative to ground and we'll short out the two pins down the bottom and let's see what we get. Get on our output, shall we look at that? Bingo 3.9 Vol disconnect and there you go.
So obviously this bottom pin is controlling the output on here to drive the LED So that proves my theory that this contact down here shorts um, the bottom pin and ground, which switches on the LED output and just for completeness, let's use the oscilloscope here to see what the output is like. Is it a D or is it a DC signal? So let's just short the two pins out here and bingo there it is. 1, 2, 3.9 odd Vols Exactly what we measured on the meter. So it is definitely a Uh DC signal and let's see what happens when we hook up a white LED uh, in this case it's a lumy leads uh 1 watt LED directly up with no dropper resistor straight on the terminals and let's switch it on and see what happens.
Yep, it work works, but take a look, we're getting 250 milliamps Huge. Well, okay, clearly the Um output here. The switched output controlled via the input is uh, not current limited cuz uh, clearly the LED they're running up here is not uh, 200 milliamps I Would have expected 20 milliamps or something like that, but let's see what the short circuit current is. So I've got this on the Uh 10 amp range and let's switch the output on, shall we? As you can see, it shuts down pretty quick.
Let's try that on the milliamp range and it jumps right up there. and it's it. Looks like it's output short circuit protected, so no problems at all. It won't switch on and as you can see, it's still functional.
The whole Kindle still works, so not a problem, so it doesn't matter. Even if you short out, um, this output here, it makes no difference at all. In fact, if you actually hold it on here and look at the output, it actually hiccups. there it is, It switches on, then off, and it self- protects itself.
No problems at all. And now that we've proven that it can survive a direct short across the Uh output when it's on, let's try just shorting out all of the pins down here on this bottom connector just in case it shorts out the TX pin and all sorts of things. Because that's what some people claim is that these connections are somehow shorting out inside to something. So let's short them all out. I've got some Al foil here, by the way, so let's put that on there across all the pins. you can't see that. but I've actually uh, I've shorted out all the pins there and does it still operate? Yes, it does. It hasn't locked up at all and that's what.
uh, people claim it resets, locks up. It'll take ages to resets. clearly not doing that. So it survives.
Shorted out all those pins, and even if we connect this output here. okay, let's go to the top here, hold this on here, and short it to all the pins down the bottom. Here, short it down to everything. It still operates, no problems at all.
And if you try all combinations of inputs down here. um, it doesn't matter what you actually do what you short out, it makes no difference whatsoever. all the combinations and all, and it still works so clearly. there is no issue at all with uh, these contact pins shorting out anything inside this.
Kindle So there you have it. I Think we've conclusively busted the myth that it's uh, this problem is being caused by these metal tabs wearing off the black paint and somehow shorting something inside the inside. The Kindle Granted, uh, we've only had a Um sample size of one here, but from a technical point of view, I Can't see how shorting out any of these, uh, any of the external connectors in here can cause a problem. We, you saw it.
We drew 250 milliamps quarter over an amp from this sucker and it didn't reset. it, didn't lock up, it didn't do anything. So that was a pretty worst case scenario. I Think we shorted all the pins out and as you saw the Uh clearance around the Uh the keyhole connectors here means that there's no way that those connect can touch any of the other circuitry.
So myth busted. It's not that. so what is it? Well I don't know. My next best guess would be: uh ESD electrostatic discharge.
maybe caused by the case or something like that coupling into the Uh contact terminals, but why? it only happens on the non LED version. this is the LED funky little pop out one. apparently doesn't happen on this. There's but the identical version of this with the black PL painted tabs it happens on Why I don't know I've tried some ESD stuff.
can't kill it at all. Um, but I need to do further investigation on that to try and figure it out. But I don't know. it's definitely not the tabs.
so I hope that's cleared that up. All those uh comments on slash Dot and everything else people thinking it was that sorry I don't think so I'll keep you updated if I find anything further.
👍👍👍
I know this is an ancient video by tech and youtube standards, but I wanted to thank you for an interesting look at how these things work. I have zero electrical knowledge and some of what you said was gibberish to me, but it gives me hope that my idea can work: either harvesting an LED strip and diffuser panel from a Kindle Paperwhite (with a dimmer switch/toggle?), or coming up with a DIY alternative, to install onto a Kindle Keyboard. I love the Paperwhite's lighting but can't stand the size and lack of buttons, and can't afford the Oasis, which frankly doesn't look satisfying to use.
Wow that Kindle mount is totally overengineered
but if those connectors have paint that is wearing out could it cause resetting when the mystery pin shorts only to RX or TX or even both without shorting to ground or even shortibg them together
modern junk
Help how do I reset my kindle I bought it used its the Amazon kindle 3
dr murphy predicts a drop and water damage to the ipad, ipod.
Do these cases have magnets in to trigger read switch for auto-sleep/wake I know the newer kindles and cases do, as do quite a few similar devices. (My tablet does to)? I'm thinking just unlikely chance the the movement of the magnet when opening it is causing just the wrong stray current on just a particular track (the nexus 10 pogo pins seem to have this problem).
I am still using my Kindle 3 with the non-LED official case. I have one vague memory of accidentally picking the Kindle up by the Kindle itself – not the case it was attached to. The painted hooks on the case would be pressing against something inside the Kindle. It died. Turned itself off. I had no problem turning it back on. Other than that, I haven't experienced any issues with the case or my Kindle resetting or dying.
I have had my Kindle freeze occasionally. I could not get it out of standby mode. I let the battery die. After recharging the battery, all is back to normal. Unfortunately, my battery normally lasts like 2 weeks so it takes awhile. Turning it completely off (screen goes white) when you're not using it seems to prevent that problem. Always leaving the Kindle in standby mode (random image on screen) increases the risk of a lock up. Occasionally resetting any device that I tend to leave on 24/7 seems to help me avoid problems. Whenever I remember to, I cycle the power on my mobile phone, Roku, Kindle, and Nintendo 3DS.
Is there a gluten free option?
warn paint on the contact couls cause all sorts of nast effects,
processor interrupts at an unexpected rate, or just random data on the RX pin.
My Kindle fire is too slow
Great myth-busting! 🙂
The symptoms described sound ominously like capacitor plague symptoms. I wonder if the problem is faulty capacitors? You would need to get hold of one of these malfunctioning Kindles to find out the problem.
I forgot to mention in my last post that I did replace the battery with a new one, and charged it for a day until the green light came on. Still, that didn't fix it.
Thanks for the video – great job!
I bought my Kindle 3G Keyboard about 3 years ago and have used it every day since. The first year I had it, I used the Amazon Kindle leather non-LED case – the same one in the video only without the built in lamp. No problems – always worked. For the last 2 years, instead of the leather case, I used a silicone rubber armor skin for drop protection. It worked fine for 2 years until last month when it started rebooting and then freezing continuously. It has nothing to do with the leather case. Sometimes, the Kindle will be functional for a short time, maybe about 10 minutes before going into a reboot again.
I have tried the 20 (to 60) second On switch reset solution, updating the software to the latest, restoring the device to the factory default condition (deleting all contents) to no avail. I see that in 3 years, there has not been a solution offered for this problem, either by Amazon or any hackers out there. It is still a mystery.
Try increasing the fault current draw upwards beyond the 250mA you've demonstrated as not being a problem. A sustained high power draw near the current limit point could be a problem if it causes a voltage sag elsewhere (i.e. the problem has propagated).
I've had a lot of problems with my kindle freezing but this is the first I have heard that there is a case issue. Hmm, guess I should stop using this case then and see if that solves my problems.
You probably haven't looked into it further, but since this video is almost 3 years old, I was wondering if the problem was ever determined? Its not a short of those contacts but does anyone know what the problem is?
Either way, good video!
So the black paint wears off the tabs by repeatedly inserted and removed from the device? Any idea if paint is conductive? If so that seems like a possible candidate for the dead kindles.
your analogy is moot for the reason that you are talking about testing a completely different product (make and model) for a problem in another product with the only similarity is that they are the same TYPE of product. but to put your analogy to proper use we can say, if you have a common problem with toyota (say the accelerator is sticking) but its most prominent in a prius that is painted black. this does not mean you cant test a gold one because the issue has only to do with the accelerator.
One of my preferred moments … Watching the testing and hearing the logic for such. Great work Dave.
Hey I have a problem myself. I left my kindle in my car for a few days and it was a little warm outside. The next time I tried to read with it the screen saver is frozen on the screen and it won't come on. I feel dumb asking but is it fried? This is my second one and they can't be that easy to break can they?
ESD or maybe a mechanical stress in the right spot on the PCB. My guess is ESD from a plastic case that should have had some carbon added to the mix to keep it from building up a charge. Usually pins for any connection are tucked in far enough to keep any shorting issues at bay. Thankfully I am too poor to run out and buy the latest gadget. I also like to see the initial failure rate of an item before I invest in it. Leave it to some twit to make a fatal carrying case for the darn thing!
Good thing you didn't break it. The wife would kill you as you've mentioned that she claimed it 😉
Hi Dave. God Bless you mate. I really am having trouble with my Kindle 3rd Gen WiFi only. I have tried all rebooting methods, recharging for 30 Mins. rebooting again, etc… The unit is frozen on the book list menu all the time. The yellow led turns on when plugged-in to the adapter, but, the green light does not. Why is it frozen like that? Can you help me in understanding this idiotic problem Dave? Do you suggest I just ask Amazon to give me a new one? Amazed at yor knowledge too. Thanx