Are you getting ripped off with Energizer and Duracell D cell NiMH rechargeable batteries?
Why is a D cell NiMh the same capacity or lower than the smaller C or even AA cell?
Teardown time!
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Why is a D cell NiMh the same capacity or lower than the smaller C or even AA cell?
Teardown time!
Forum: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1200-busted!-energizer-duracell-nimh/'>http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1200-busted!-energizer-duracell-nimh/
#BUSTED #Energizer #Duracell
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Hi. check this out. We've got three rechargeable D cells here. Nickel Metal Hydride old-school Now this new thing called Lithium rubbish.
We've got one from RS Components here, our estate manufacturer, of course. I'm not sure who actually manufactures this particular one. if you do, let us know. Anyway, we've got the Energizer rechargeable here, and we've got the Juris cell.
and they're supposed to be fairly identical, right? There are rechargeable D cells, but there's something weird going on here. this: RS Components One: Eight thousand milliamp hour thank you very much. The Energizer 2500 milliamp hours water and the Jura Cell 2200 milliamp hours Wow It's like less than a third of the capacity of this RS Components one. What the heck's going on? But it gets even stranger.
this: D Cell One: 2200 milliamp hours. The exact same series in a C cell is 3000 milliamp hours. How can this C cell have greater capacity than this D cell? My spidey sense: There's something weird going on here, and in addition to having them clearly marked on the batteries themselves in the data sheets, everything's legitimate. Its marked on the package in there.
It is 2500 milliamp hours. so this seems very strange until you actually go to pick these up. this: RS Components one feels really heavy and meaty and it goes thunk when you drop it on the table. This juror cell one feels a bit wimpy and it's like me and this energizer one is light as and like it's just piss weak.
So what is the difference? Why are these different? Well, let's crack them apart and find out now. I could actually I get the gear out and do a proper discharge testing on these things to prove that they are 8,000 milliamp hours and twenty two or twenty 500 milliamp hours. But I Have absolutely no doubt that they meet their datasheet claims right? These aren't some weird one. Hello, hey! Sakura Sellin Energizer.
They got full characteristic datasheet, so there's no point. these are legitimately less capacity than whether they're well, in this case is Iris Components one. But I think it can get a couple that are even higher capacity than the Iris components one. What's the difference? Hmm.
So if we actually weigh this, the RS Components 162 grams Energizer 64, Duracell 78 and the C cell 62. So as you can see the this hundred, almost no difference between the energizer D cell and the juror cell this C cell. Look at that. Nuts.
So it's rather interesting that the juror cell at 2200 milliamp hours actually weighs more than the energizer at 2500 milliamp hours. Hmm. Well, that's the outer wrapper off of the Energizer one. and it's like just some sort of plastic or polycarbonate case with a metal inner shell by the looks of it.
So I'm gonna try and trim all that away. Actually, I'm not even gonna Dremel that. just gonna get in there with the side cutters. Yes, they have seen a bit of action.
He's side cutters and it looks like this bottom plate might just might just drop out of here. so that could be interesting. Let's just do that first. Hello, yeah, is that loosey-goosey Yep, that looks loosey-goosey to me. Wah wah wah wah look at that. Oh look at this. Look at this. There's a plastic look ripped off.
absolutely ripped off this de sel look at all the look at all the air in there. It's not even the fault the cell inside is not even the full length. Unbelievable. Ah, well done Energizer! Ah so I I'm not gonna call it a scam because it does actually meet its rating.
it's just that it's rating is like less than this --see cell here so of course it's going to be a physically smaller actually look. it's kind of maybe looks quite similar to the C cell actually should. I Just try to cut that open and I don't think I have to do that I think that is just gonna drop it. drop out of there Tada.
That is what's inside a d-cell Look, it's less than the C cell. Wow If you have a look at the Energizer in the Jura cell here, the bottom of it looks like the metal extends. The negative terminal extends all the way out. It looks like this may actually be an all metal case as opposed to the Energizer which of course we're seen is all plastic case.
So let's get crack this one open. And yep, you can see that the entire outer casing of the Jura cell is metal, hence why it weighs more for less capacity. And also, you've got to think about this because it might be an issue. Say you had you know, something sharp that actually pierced through the outer insulation on this thing, then it could potentially short out whereas the Energizer wouldn't do that because it's a plastic case all the way around.
And given that you know these are reasonable capacity they can capable of generating you know, many amps into a short circuit. It depends on the application, but if you had some obscure thing where you pierce the outer thing of a battery, it could actually short out. That was a big deal in the batteries earthing, but we won't get back in the batter. Iser and it looks like it's just gonna have a yeah a plastic on the top there.
and you might think, well, if this case is. If this is all negative, it looks like it shorted over to the positive, but uh-huh it's not. If you get right in there, you should be able to see that there's actually a seal right around there. Don't get him with my knife because I'd actually short that out, but these are discharged anyway.
It looks like it does have a welded tab on the top as opposed to this one on the Energizer which just flaps around in the breeze. You might actually think that the insulation is around that bit there instead of under the lip, but you'd be wrong because if we actually measure that, you'll see that there's nothing up. You see, there's nothing there, but if we probe the top part of it. Bingo.
By the way, if you're wondering how much you can get out of, well, this particular energizer, others will be more. Don't try this at home kitties. We actually don't blow our fuse. There we go. Just over ten amps something like that. Whew. Let's start to get a bit of medieval on its ass. What do you think? Well, looky what we have here.
You can already see the space inside there. You can see some chemistry business happening down in there, but you can see an awful lot of wasted space, including vertical space up the top here. So yeah, lots of volume wasted. No surprise there, given that this is 3000 milliamp hours versus the 8000 that you can potentially pack into this size from quite a few manufacturers.
so it's at least half the volume gone. Now, this is getting rather interesting. Check it out. You can see that there's this plastic ring separator in there that actually keeps the actual self right in the center.
So there's all that I haven't shifted that. So all that space in there, all that volume right around is wasted. And that's why this one has such a low capacity. Yeah, you're getting really shortchanged.
Looks like they got some tape that that would be just tape actually holding the rolled construction because this will be multiple multiple layers and then they just roll it up to form the cell itself and what stuff is inside. Well, its nickel-metal hydride, but it's actually like a whole bunch of stuff. the the electrolyte inside which is an alkaline one. It's usually potassium hydroxide and that'll be installed in like a woven like material inside there.
And then as far as metals inside a nickel metal hydride, there's nickel obviously I'm magnesium and aluminium, Cobalt and weird stuff like lanthanum and neodymium and all sorts of like weird and wonderful mixtures and that will slightly vary depending on the manufacturer. They've all got their own secret sauce in there and you'll see that there's actually they're going to have a pressure vent around here. It looks like it's don't after that's actually an o-ring but there is like a rubber seal around there and that's designed if the pressure builds up. if you short this thing out or something else happens inside there then to build up a pressure it'll be.
It could be exothermic and you want the the top cap to actually release on that before they you know instead of having the whole thing explode, it's better to have it just go and just fizz out. How does that go? You can see that the cell is actually attached to its own backplate on here. don't know if it's it seems to be stuck, but I Didn't see any world mark on there, but maybe it is world. It seems to because it's pretty permanently attached on there.
But obviously they assemble that and then put the outer case in with that and then put the outer case in on top. and there you have it. That's the cells. So here's the oh no.
Here we go. We've got a tab on that, so there we go. There's our positive electrode down in there and just a tab goes up to the top. That's pretty much what you'd expect. and then the bottom are You can see the roll and see the roll nature of it. So maybe we can unroll this puppy and see. but this is just tape to stop it to keep it all condensed and flapping around and burries. You can already see the layers there and you can see that.
Obviously there was absolutely nothing to stop them from in this case. it's a Jew cell and there's nothing to stop them from. You know, winding it all the way with LBJ and giving you the full capacity. And that's what you'd get inside this eight thousand milliamp hour one instead of being shortchanged and just getting like half the rap in there.
No wonder it's like the less capacity because they're just skimping on cost. Really? And they don't. These things aren't necessarily any cheaper than one of the you know lesser brand names with the full capacity in them. And of course this is why these ones are much heavier than these, because they contain more of if you're sell more of your battery so we'll just slice that open there.
and bingo do that. Oh, there we go. There we go. That's what's inside it.
all that black stuff I Won't pretend to know the exact chemistry inside the Jura cells. You're a solid, have their own. Oh, why is that? Oh looks slightly slightly different, doesn't it? but it's gonna be uniform all the way. Alright, seems to be sort of different in there.
It's like it's eating away somehow. There we go. Well, look at that. So here's all our multiple layers.
Look at that. and there is our mesh. So there you go. That's effectively that's four layers.
I'm not sure if that's typical of all of them I Assume it assume it would be of all the different brands, but as I said, the chemistry will slightly differ between brands. Okay, so the layers we got here pretty obvious. Here's our negative electrode down here. and that's physically connected.
That's look. It's actually it's part of. Is it like welded? It could have been formed in the same thing, but it's actually part of this inner mesh. So that is the negative electrode.
and that's wound all the way in that's covered with the secret sauce. and then we're going to have a look. There's going to be a separate here and separator on the other side. So these two separators keeping that from shorting out to this one which is your positive electrode of course because you can see see up in there that it actually connects through to the terminal.
So there you go. That's that's that's pretty brittle isn't it? Oh my poor my poor. Matt here. I Should that's actually a positive conducting electrode? Typical construction in a nickel metal hydride battery that all be almost identical apart from the various secret sauce mixtures in them. They will have a positive and negative electrode wrapped around with a electrical separator between them and that's it. Now sometimes in the positive terminal up there they'll have a like a PTC type element, a positive temperature coefficient element that will if it it will increase resistance if the of course if the temperature rises in it. So that's an additional safety measure like an overcurrent type measure and in addition to the gasket around there that would blow. But yep, if they've skimped on the the amount of material in here and they just put in the plastic separator and this is probably exactly the same given that the new Jurists l1 this one we got here is 2200 milliamp hours, but the new one is 3000 milliamp hours.
Exactly the same as this. So I reckon there Jerusalem just got an energizer I've just gone where we're running one production line for the C and D I Don't have run another production line to like, you know, cut them longer and do all that. So we'll just reuse the production line for the C to do the DS And well, nobody wants nobody. Use a high-capacity nickel metal hydride.
D cells these days do they have the bug of that? So we'll just use the same exactly the same construction, exactly the same amount of materials as we'll do in a desolate. tear down the DS the C cell here because it's obviously going to be exactly the same as this. And for those wondering, well, I don't see any like metallic grid like like metal mesh that we actually got in the negative electrode. So is this positive electrode? is that really conductive? Well let's get in there and depends on where you put it.
I have gotten it down. It depends how you do it, but yeah there you go one ohm like it can but like it's all over the shop. but it is I like it has to be low resistance of course and it's going to be the whole not only the surface area, but the volume of it as well. but that is the positive electrode.
but it's not. It's actually not a mesh because it just rips like that. It's not the same. This one here is actually a metal mesh.
You can hear that. T C So there you go I Hope you enjoyed that. Look at how Energizer and Duracell and maybe others. If you know of other brands that rip you off with a low capacity like this, then not.
Please Let us know in the comments down below. and if you're after a good nickel metal hydride D-cell battery, make sure you get one of the high-capacity ones like 8,000 milliamp hour or even slightly larger you can get. They're the real deal and they're super heavy and they're got all the rolls in there to give you the full capacity. You don't want to be pissing away like you know, two-thirds of your capacity by buying one of these Energizer order or so and I Don't think they're any cheaper Are they? they might be I don't know.
I'm not going to go look at prices and stuff like that, but yeah, there you go, you're sellin. Energizer. Is it actually a scam? As such in quote marks, Well, it's kind of like a bit of a marketing scam because although it's it's they're properly advertising on here and I have no doubt it'll be 2500 milliamp hours at once. See, at 1 the discharge rate of 2.5 amps, the actual capacity depends on the curves will actually vary, But basically I have no doubt it actually meets its capacity and its printed on the front. You just have to know what you're doing, but they're obviously you know marketing is kind of preying on the fact that, well, you're not going to care about the capacity. All you know is that you need a nickel metal hydride. d Sophia You know, fart in novelty toy or whatever it is and you're just going to go out and buy one and not actually caring about capacity of these things and what that actually means. Cuz you know Joe Public may not fully understand that they're gonna know that eight thousand milliamp hour is better than 2500 milliamp hour.
It's because it's bigger number, right? It's better. but they may not. Really, You know, know or care in the scheme of things and it's just one of those marketing things. Well Aaron Energizer Juror Cell have decided, Well, we can get away with just re spinning our C cell, whacking it in a D-cell case.
Basically, it's all they're doing here and getting away with it. So yeah. Look, if you really care about capacity now, waste your money with these bloody. Duracell An Energizer one's ridiculous.
Get it A decent one. They deliberately making them smaller inside and the rest of it is just air inside this thing so they know they know exactly what they're doing and they're doing it very deliberately. Energizer and Juror Cell: Unbelievable. Anyway, I hope you enjoy that.
If you did, please give it a big yellow thumbs up. And as always, discuss down below. catch you next time.
all the reasons why i use AA sized batteries with C an D sized battery adapters. buying the C and D batteries is pointless plus you get more AAs in a pack vs the bigger batteries.
most NIMH C and Ds all use Sub C cells these days, they simply need to fit that dimension.
In the end, integrity will win the day.
Thanks for the teardown and analysis – very informative.
BTW The price difference is so high per battery that you're paying for RS higher capacity. Most consumers are not going to pay the price difference and will simply settle for shorter runtimes and more frequent trips to the battery charger. (But now we know why you'll probably never see RS batteries in your big box hardware store…)
I wound up getting the AAA and the AA size batteries along with the charging pack for the energizers pro recharge kit for a birthday present. They do the job but I did notice they have quite a bit less capacity than those alkaline batteries or buy from the store. I just assumed it was a characteristic like nickel cadiums. I use the AA's for my controllers on my quest 2 and 1 in the clock for the family living room. The other one in my minidisc Sony s1 walkmen. The triple A's are in the TV remotes. According to the brochure that they came with the batteries can be charged up to a thousand times. So we're good for a little while.
This is why people complained about rechargeable batteries of this sort back in the day. And they probably still charge a bunch, then they don't seem very good so no one buys more and then they just sell more alkaline batteries and there's no competition.
I would not be surprised if most of those batteries (bigger than AA/AAA) were just AA/AAA in disguise (maybe even with retail sticker on it). Because manufacturing only few sizes of cells would be cheaper and other sizes are not used that much by consumers anymore (=lower turnaround).
Itโs unfortunate that these previously trustworthy companies are misleading.
It's an oldy, but a goodie.
"Pissweak" that's a great word I'm going to start using it.
At this point why not just sell an adapter for AA batteries.
Do the batteries say Made in China if so you have your answers!!!
Do the three Hedge Funds also own these corporation's as they own and control the majority of American corporations that are screwing America everyday???
1.2 volts is crap when trying to use them in a 1.5Volt product.. Just another way to ripe people off and increase their profits we can no longer get good rechargeable 1.5 VOLTS in quite a few sizes ??? Thank You China?
make an e-bike battery out of them, test it till it blows up
EBL Batteries are 10,000 mAh and I've seen another one at 12,000 mAh!
Just be careful and pay attention to what you are buying!
In one respect, it's not a scam, but a matter of practicality. They decide what the capacity of a "D" size NiMH cell needs to be, and produce it. But it doesn't fill up the "D" case. They can't put it in an appropriate size case, because then it wouldn't fit properly in devices that take "D" cells. They SHOULD make it with the highest capacity possible, and emphasize that in their advertising, but their "bean counters" no doubt have them convinced that the ignorant masses wouldn't appreciate the difference.
Is space required for storing gass discharge for recombination in charging???
I just don't get the idea why that is supposed to be a "rip off"? They just put the same cell into a bigger casing, as some applicants just well.. need a bigger casing.
Where is the problem? It's not that they claimed higher capacity. Thumbs down for click-baiting title.
I ordered some Energizer D batteries and did a double take when I saw the mah rating on the package. Yup, these are definitely going back to Amazon…
These 2 brands have built their image on being longer lasting than other brands so it is an obvious scam. A customer won't look at capacity because they assume they will be the longest lasting one. Most people don't know what mAh are or mean and will easily get ripped off.