A look at the Caesium beam time and frequency standards at the Keysight standards lab in Melbourne Australia, with Peter Daly.
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All right, and these are your primary time references. Tell us about them. We've got 250, 71 Alpha sitting boom references. We the plant number 183 is our prime primary standard.

Yeah, and this one's it uses a cross-reference for that. For it, we is the primary one better. Has it got no better before? It's just an arbitrary choice which isn't used. Yeah, and it gives us a backup as well.

But also, they cross-checked to the GPS system and a GPS system has a has their time to across the across the satellite network. The GPS receiver puts out a 1 pulse per second pulse so does a season each day. We measure the drift between the 1 pulse per second on the GPS and the one pulse per second on our cesium and determine the drift between those two systems. It's the phase difference, yeah, just that the phase change between that one pulse per second.

Do you monitor that continuously? Oh We'd spot we do it at spot checks but we cross-check that against in a mile which do it across a number of different. That's oh no. These measurements. you do it a number of different localities across the country and they do it once once per second so they can.

Actually they can actually monitor drift so we've got it. We can compare that one pulse per second drift directly to the results from any mile which which are published on the web. I Understand right? Okay so all the data set what the does he write for them So how accurate? A lot of people want to know how accurate in quote marks the GPS system is? Can you tell us about that? It's a hairline, it's a hearing. but the time wise its we.

time wise. The GPS system can't be used as a reference because it's not. It's not under any any single entities control. It's a group of satellites that are all independent cesium's that are that are monitored by the US and the US military.

So NASA doesn't accept the GPS as a standalone reference. So in Australia it's the GPS is not considered only part of any trace of all. No, it's only used as a cross-check and the that one-pass per second drift between the GPS system and your own clock is what they what they what you use determine how stable your reference is because they're using an unstable reference from one of a better word of the GPS system and you're measuring it with different locations to give you that. that's comparison and they the they used to actually tweak that all they can and they can't we frequency of the I don't know if they do it any anymore that it used to be.

It used to be regular for them to adjust the decision on each individual satellite. or they can I think I think individually. it's It's anecdotal, So right. Okay, but it's anecdotal that they have the ability to adjust this thing.

So if if standards adjusted regularly then it's can't be sustained. it can't be used because I Talked about yesterday, but that period. So we've got to start timing to finished off that someone's adjusting. In the in the meantime, you've lost all you've lost it, you say? So that's a course and that's got a big distribution.
Yeah, well, it's not a high power. Its most example for the the output of the Cesium is distributed through our network. So it's a house standard and it goes out to all our benches outside the other side of the lab. And it's distributed in here as well.

so our atomic reference is available across all their pitches. Awesome work. These things you never pair off know how long they've been powered up for that plant Number One Eighths Regiment powered up since about 1994. It's 94 and you've got backup generators.

Obviously we we're hooked up to they have their own battery Oh They've got a marine - got a veteran here that's good for a short period of time. but we were also hooked into a UPS which is a big big diesel generator at the back of the building so that that keep scene. so if it does kick in, Is there any noticeable subtle change on the drift or reset character? I Couldn't I Couldn't tell you how metrology more powerful to etch a truth? Metrologist leaves less Yeah. I'm there's Liz Does he want to be on camera? Yeah, there's less.

He's the other metrologist we're talking about. decision and what happens when the UPS cuts in outside weather That it that impacts the stability of our cesium at all You can't see right 13. So that's is that As is that? The best possible in the world? That's really the best you can. Well, that's that's T.

That's that's the SI standard, right? So this is the transition. a hyperfine transition of the cesium atom in a vacuum or within that magnetic field out. All right. Pete's gonna tell us about the traceability of Chari traceability tree for S-parameters within within Agilent Technologies It's really tied to the physical dimensions and because the quality quality of the airlines that are used as references.

Now these these references get into 45 megahertz and they're measured by by laser interferometers. It's a whole laboratory in Santa Rosa that's devoted to them and that places our Agilent network analyzed at the time of manufacturer manufacture at this point here. All right. So this is this is where the calibration verification standards that we use are used on our device, our devices under test here.

So if you look at the National Measurements Institute, they use the Electronic Electrical Standards in the In Nist to calibrate their network analyzers and subsequently provide traceability across the planet. They're down here. That puts them down there. so that's neat.

Alright, so that's about when you start, that's business They: yeah, there's this theory. Yes, this there for Victor And for port, we're talking Victor and Victor and analyze. So there's this mystery on the traceability chart. Mm-hmm this is our standard slope here.

That's your standard slab. Say you're better than NIST on in theory, that's not it. No, it's not a statement I Want to want to put not a statement? Okay, I want to put on camera. But in many, in many cases the trick because our Factory in Santa Rosa are higher up the traceability chart then NIST just through that hierarchy.
In many cases, they are better than issed at Santa Rosa We don't claim to be better than Mr. or Nmi here for a number of reasons. No, no, no, that's that's we don't We don't claim to be better than any my organist. However, a trace of traceability through Santa Rosa as Santa Rosa hub and Factory is actually bit better than NIST for return loss measurements and in many cases power missions.

because and that's from forty five megahertz upwards up to 50 gigahertz 50 years and I think they might be extending that. but I would have to look it up to find out how. how far do how far do customers go? I've been frequently. How far do what are some of the obscure applications deal with? We're selling Victor Network Analyzers now in Australia for particular customers that are going 210 gigahertz.

So these are one milk, one more connectors. The 2.4 milk connectors that we use for 50 gigahertz. Our challenge for older fellows like me. And listen because they're a very very fine connector.

So when we get to when we get to having to start doing the one real stuff, we're going to have to get a young apprentice and look over their shoulder. Alright so if we look at frequency and time measurements so we can go from from 1 million Hertz 250-year Hertz with traceability. And if we look over this side of the chart here alright, this is the time and frequency system is traceable to our primary stands at our 5071 for other for other items like power and attenuation. We go through different laboratories.

We go through different national laboratories. For example, for attenuation we are traceable for at RF Power and attenuation chart actually goes up. We actually bypass for attenuation. we bypass these change chains and go directly to NPL Mic.

From my understanding, NPL I've got the best system available for doing attenuation on the planet, so that's the National Physics Laboratory in UK. All right, so that's that's one that's one one trace traceability pathway home. We have another traceability path to NIST which is a National Institute of Standards and Technology in the USA. We also go through Germany for what mining for power since no that's that's for some light power sent light wave power sensors go to Germany and the way when you go into the the calibration of some some of the sensors that they do in Germany they go through the surface of the sensor almost pixel by pixel and give you a map of its sensitivity and in a mill in Japan and nmi in Australia.

So all their measurements that we do from the blue bits down we were actually doing our measurements are all traceable up to these green bits which are primary standards or national measurements laboratories.

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By YTB

23 thoughts on “Eevblog #1040 – caesium beam frequency standards”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars baltakatei says:

    God, let the man speak.

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Fried Mule says:

    It's funny to think of that GPS does not relay upon its own frequency standards, simply because they are too imprecise.
    When the astronomer did calculate the acceleration of our solar system through the Milky Way to be one atom per second, did they use quasars, that is the most precise frequency standard in existence! 🙂

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Dave B says:

    Wow the new ending is very electric and scary. I'm afraid I will have to sue for 2,000,000 in emotional anguish and lost productivity.

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars CampKohler says:

    All it takes is lots and lots of money. Please pass the RS Micronta VOM.

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars sparkyuiop says:

    Glad you sorted the mic issue and it didn't ruin the video.

  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Gábor Móczik says:

    Dave, I (and many others too) already said this, please stop talking over your interview partner. It is not just annoying, it makes the whole converation less understandable. Please take into consideration that not just native english speakers watching your videos. I think I understand english speaking good enough, even in some weird accent, but for me it is hard to understand if you both talk simultaneously.

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Brian Ksiazek says:

    Don't turn it on, take it apart!

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Brucifer says:

    NPL is actully 'National Physical Laboratory' and not 'National Physics Laboratory'.

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Nicolas Joyard says:

    Dave, I'd have a small remark for that kind of video: I find that it's really difficult to follow when you interrupt the person you're talking to. That's, I think, mostly because we cannot hear you as loud and clear as the person facing the camera. The consequence is that we often cannot hear clearly what your question or remark is, as you are not as loud and the other person is still talking. To solve the issue, you may want to bring a second mike in those cases, or else try to avoid interrupting.

    Anyway, very cool video 🙂

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Paul Gear says:

    Two requests: 1) Please stop talking over the guest you're interviewing. 2) Would you be able to provide a link to the GPS<->Caesium drift data which is published publicly?

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Fear Labs Audio says:

    Cool Video! Dave, I recommend HiPassing your audio at about 100hz on these location videos. Crazy low end at times when using capable speakers.

  12. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Simon A says:

    So what is the story with speed of light measurements being out of expected tolerance around the world some time ago? I heard they all deviated more than expected.

  13. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Peter Woolliams says:

    Nice to see where some of our calibrations go….

  14. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Wyvrn says:

    SO cool to see behind the curtain like this!

  15. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars JL Software says:

    OK you lost me at "airlines."

  16. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ilya Karyagin says:

    I've worked as a radio communication engineer. Our system used GPS time as sync for air traffic and land communication between base stations. Central sync source was a Meinberg-500 (high time stability GPS receiver). It can support good enough sync for around a week, even if there is not signal from antenna, but…. Once, those yankees corrected GPS for a second at the end of a year. The system gone crazy – no air traffic, despite of carriers were in the air… I've had to reboot and reclock every base station transmitter, in order to restore it working. GPS is a good in general source, but it's not very reliable, since you don't control it.

  17. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars TheDuckofDoom! says:

    Knowing which second it is(time of day), is entirely different from knowing how long a second is.

  18. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars DAVID GREGORY KERR says:

    The GPS satellites are owned by the US Military and they have made it accessible to the civilian so they don't get lost.

  19. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars fradd says:

    dave, you now need to do a video on the importance/need for such standards and calibrations etc etc , please! thanks for the awesome vids

  20. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Knuckles the Echidna says:

    Yet another great video! I didn't even know this stuff existed before subscribing to your channel! Since then however I know the importance of calibration, even silly little things like HF radios it's noticeable as signals can be a few Hz even KHz out on Chinese portable SSB world band receivers with no option of calibration but my SDRPlay RSP2 software defined radio has a frequency reference in and out!

  21. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Frank Acosta says:

    Regardless of the fact they want to call themselves Agilent or Keysight nothing can beat the good, old Hewlett Packard branding

  22. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jim Griffiths says:

    Psh. My frequency standard is much better. It's literally made out of subatomic particles arranged into the shape of atoms with electron fields surrounding them which have all been carefully arranged into the shape of a Casio watch.

    Fascinating video, by the way! Pardon the aspie humour.

  23. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Rusty Blair says:

    Dave,

    I worked in the USAF doing AFMETCAL tester CAL-VER. The tractability to the standard will drive you CRA-CRA.

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