Dave got caught out by thinking his EDC MV106 Voltage Standard had failed, when it hadn't. Perhaps due to his excitement of being able to do a repair video on it.
Another trap for young players.
Forum: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/eevblab/eevblab-6-don't-assume-it's-faulty/'>http://www.eevblog.com/forum/eevblab/eevblab-6-don't-assume-it's-faulty/
Service Manual with schematic: http://www.eevblog.com/files/MV106%20Service%20Manual.pdf'>http://www.eevblog.com/files/MV106%20Service%20Manual.pdf
EEVblog #210 - Krohn-Hite DC Voltage Standard Teardown & Calibration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onqsjDJq4I0
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Hi welcome to another Evie blabber episode this one I wasn't going to do because it's rather embarrassing. but I thought hey, this could be a learning experience for some people. Now this is my EDC Cronkite MV 106 Voltage Standard if you haven't seen it before, I'll link in videos down below very nice metrology Regrade Voltage Reference standard and I was testing a multimeter the other day plugging it into it and I as usual I set it for 10 point Zero Zero Zero Zero Zero volts and this thing is absolutely bang-on I've had it tested at a Traceable Cow Standards lab and this is what I got Ten Point Four Seven o' Volts now I Sort of freaked out for a second because I actually had the multimeter switched to Ohms when I actually plugged it in. and of course, in Ohms mode, the multimeter will try and generate it, will generate a voltage, and try and generate a current into this thing.

and I've done that before without problem. but I was sure that this thing actually worked before I plugged in that particular multimeter on the Ohms and as soon as I plugged it in, why am I? All of a sudden it was giving out ten Point Four Seven volts And look, if I switch it down to nine here, well, it's it's still Nine Point Four Seven. So it had all that resolution, right? So it had all the typical resolution there so it seems to work, but it was out. And if I turn it down to a hundred millivolts here, right? it's bang on of course.

And if I turn it down to ten millivolts it was bang on Again, it was only the 10 volt range like this. so I thought no I've somehow this multimeter in Ohms range is blowing this thing. but I knew you know like that's a real remote possibility and because yeah, this thing's only going to generate like a milliamp at most and this thing is pretty robust. it's going to handle that as I said I've done it before but hey, those were the symptoms and you know, look, it's not a Dickey connection or anything like that and I turn it negative and we get the negative and it works fine on the 100-million got range.

So I thought you know somehow I've blowin maybe the output of an Op-amp or something in the feedback loop or something like that, you know even though the remote possibility what it was and that was that was what I got. so I thought you know what that's got to be like the problem and I thought oh great okay I can do a repair video this I got all these super excited that you know I'd be able to actually repair this thing because it's a nice you know or through-hole design and and everything in there. So I got all excited so I moved it over here and onto the main bench where I shoot videos here. We took the lid off like this and then I realized oh what the problem was and no, it's not blowing.

it's a peb kak. problem exists between keyboard and chair ie. me I fooled into thinking this thing had failed you to various circumstances. but it hasn't now.

if you want to try and figure it out, pause the video now and try and figure it out. So Tweedle my thumbs until you go on. Pause it. try and figure it out.
You should be able to maybe not buy what you actually see here, but buy a bit of deductive reasoning. You might be able to figure it out. And as I said no, it's not dickie connections down here like this. We've got our sense terminals there.

Everything's just fine. So what's wrong here? Well, it is those sense terminals. Watch this tada look at that. It wasn't making contact on that sense terminal and if I put it negative like this.

Bingo. The negative one also was like just a smidgen out. it wasn't making contact. So these sense terminals here of course in these sorts of instruments and not only in these metrology grade instruments, but like a 4 Ohms terminal measurement.

That's what you have to have here. A 4 Ohms measurement because you have to sense right at the load. In this case, we don't have to. Hence, we can use these shorting bars here because the molding made a load is only 10 mega.

Of course it's very very small and these wires here they only like a million or something. So do Ohm's law. You can figure out the voltage drop across these cables is bugger all. hence why we can just sense here.

but larger loads we'd have to sense there anyway. that's what it was. just a tight and it wasn't tight on there, you know? I wiggled them around it look like they were in, you know, but it was only like, you know, a smidgen, like half a turn out or something like that. That's all it had to be that it just didn't make good enough contact is the tiny tiny smidgen out.

So there you go. a trap for young players. and what's happening of course is that the feedback loop in here. If it's got no sense, if it's not reading that sense voltage back, it'll just go to full-scale So obviously that's what it's doing.

it's going to what. ten point five is full-scale and then negative. Ten point five down. there is full-scale and that will of course change even if you go down like that.

So that's what the problem was. Oh yes, it's incredibly embarrassing. I Thought that might be a lesson for some people. don't assume something's foldy.

I Got a bit too excited that I'd be able to do a cool little repair video with this thing I think rather than think about it. but I ultimately did discover the problem pretty darn quick so it's not that embarrassing. But anyway. I thought I'd share.

Hope you learned something there. Catch you next time.

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By YTB

25 thoughts on “Eevblab #6 – don’t assume it’s faulty”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Mikko Rantalainen says:

    "Don't assume something is faulty. I got too excited that I get to repair this."

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jordan Johnson says:

    I would've taken much longer to figure that one out.. very subtle!

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Bill Moran says:

    Ever notice some days the old brain just isn't all there? It happens to me for sure. Come back the next day and the answers are so obvious it's embarrassing.

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars sys admin says:

    I would not have guessed it by my own ๐Ÿ˜›

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars JDMricist says:

    You said it wasn't a dinky connection….but it ended up being a dinky connection..

  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Samsung Handy says:

    thumbs up

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars The Cat Man says:

    These three questions will fix all technology problems.
    1. Did you turn it off and on again?
    2. Is it on?
    3. Is it plugged in?

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars elektronik1111 says:

    I had same situation on my metrology labs.

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Mikel Hawk says:

    Very interesting and as usual, so simple! We had a whole bunch of those Fluke 87's (model III) when I worked for General Dynamics back in the 1990's. Of course, I've always made due with my el-cheap-o Radio Shack DMM, and believe it or not it's been a great meter for a $60 device. The internal circuitry and overall build-quality is nothing compared to the Fluke but for what little I do I with it, it works great. One thing I do like about the Shack meter is I can attach it to a computer and log certain events over extended periods of time, which has been extremely helpful at times and is a capability I always wished the 87 had.

    I greatly enjoy your tear-down vids ๐Ÿ™‚

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Cuda FX says:

    haha, that is the exact reason, why evey tech support hotline first asks if you checked all cables, and turned the device on.ย 

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Jud Clark says:

    Traps for young players

  12. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars pvccat smith says:

    had a motherboard that was deadย ย  –ย ย  checked all the connectionsย ย  –ย  checked psuย ย  – checked continuity of headersย  – checked everythingย ย  –ย  thinking it was a bios faultย but was stuck because of no bootย  found the faultย ย ย  –ย  have a guess what it was

  13. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Larry Skaggs says:

    Dave, You're right!ย  We sometimes miss the most apparent problems that are right under our noses.ย  Thank You, this video reminded me of some of the same mistakes that I have made with test equipment while repair Avionic equipment for the US Navy.

  14. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars waswestkan says:

    ย A candidate for Hackaday fail?

  15. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars MrocznyTechnik says:

    So the connections was NOT OK you liar!

  16. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Harry Haefner says:

    yes, quite true it happens and keep you going for a bit… more to keep in mind… I do have some stories about dc automotive stuff too, it kept me busy for hourrs~!

  17. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Moe247365 says:

    Hey David,ย 

    Instead of using P.E.B.K.A.C (Problem Exist Between Keyboard And Chair) use P.I.N.I.C (Problem In Chair Not In Component/Computer). Cheers

  18. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars armpitdew says:

    i lol'd

  19. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Roger Lamb says:

    The first real trouble call i went on as a freshly minted Technician was an NPI (Not Plugged In). The janitor looking for a mains outlet unplugged the remote console.

  20. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars rempuku says:

    its usual that the fails if does not work is… not plugged in, i have that problem sometimes, thanks for the video make me smile today so fun !!

  21. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Benjamin Esposti says:

    "Another trap for young players."
    So I guess dave is a young player too.

    Nothing wrong with making mistakes! It's only natural ๐Ÿ™‚

  22. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars CP140405 says:

    My sister, when she worked for Schulmberger in South America, would have called this a "Group Seven Error"….. "Equipment not at fault"

  23. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars erg0centric says:

    Excited that it DOESN'T operate correctly!

  24. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Richard Cowtails says:

    Can you do a video on exactly how to use every feature of the 87v please?

  25. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars bigt121947 says:

    I think we have all done that at one time.

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